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Green_Manelishi:
He was a passenger in the car, according to news reports.
Police shoot Iraq vet
- Thread starter colt
- Start date
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He was a passenger in the car, according to news reports.
OP
colt
Guest
Green_Manelishi:
I guess his buddy was drunk and didnt want to stop. I would not try and exit the car at 100mph, what is SOP on high speed chases do you tell the perp to stand up when you are on top of him with your weapon or do you restrain them? Maybe you could watch the video and give us your professional opinion on it.
ShakaZulu
Contributor
Sounds to me pretty much like standard SoCal cop behaviour......lots of cases where people are shot. Not sure why this is happening.
Another, "I'm stuck in the car with OJ" scenario...
OP
colt
Guest
jagfish:
Atleast OJ, was going slow enough to bail out of the car if you didnt want to be in it.
aedavidson
Guest
Where can I see this video?
OP
colt
Guest
aedavidson:
I checked the web but cant find it. You might see it on Fox news.
Green_Manelishi:
Certainly a valid question in need of an answer.... especially if there was something that occurred during the chase that gave the officer reason to suspect his life was in danger.
But as several have said, it is difficult to come to any real conclusions based solely on the tape we saw on TV.
I've seen the video twice now, which isn't enough to have a truly informed opinion on it, but from the hip I think it was excessive force on the part of the deputy.
During the tape, the suspect is on the ground with the officer drawn down on him, and is clearly illuminated by the deputy's flashlight. There is a dialog and while the officer doesn't have verbal control of the suspect, the dialog isn't overly aggressive (in my opinion.) The officer is issuing an order ("get up, get up, get up") and the suspect replies ("I'm getting up.") which is just good form for anyone to do anytime you are given an order (particularly by someone aiming a gun at you.) Unless the investigation turns out that the suspect had a weapon (which I haven't heard about) then it sounds like the officer may have overreacted to the situation (giving him the benefit of the doubt in that he may have interpreted the suspect's movement as hostile or aggressive.)
It's a known phenomenon for adrenaline to cause an abnormal fight/flight response in an officer during a stressful or prolonged situation--and any type of high speed pursuit tends to be both. So what may be an innocent action or an accident can be perceived as a threat and responded to as a threat (using as an example the NYPD Street Crimes shooting of Amadou Diallo in 1999).
At the end of the day, I think the officer made a bunch of bad calls that culminated in a shooting. I can't say the situation was ideal in the slightest, but I don't know the reason for the "get up" order. I can understand the officer inability to go hands-on and apply restrain and search the suspect, mainly due to the night and his need to maintain the light on the suspect, in combination with the necessity for the weapon until the situation is controlled, but good form would have been to have the suspect prone out from his position where he is more easily controlled and watched until enough manpower or the situation changes so that he can be restrained and searched. There doesn't appear to be enough manpower present (strange at the end of a high speed chase) to effect a proper arrest, so "get up" was definately the wrong call.
Without anything other then a couple watchings of the tape on TV, I can't say that the shooting was "criminal" (something I've heard a few times already), but it was definately a tragedy. It's a miracle the suspect/veteran is still alive.
As a final note, I'm not an officer, but a tactical paramedic, which puts a slant on my opinion. Many of the stressors are the same, but the transitions much worse. Imagine going from talking on the phone with the wife and kids while eating a burger in your car to a high-speed pursuit to having to trying to make snap decisions weighing a belligerent person's actions versus your ability to go home to said wife/kids with all that "fight/flight" adrenaline pumping through your system. And, as a general rule, flight isn't considered much of an option (though, to forestall argument, is something that should always be considered, but c'mon, you're a cop, y'know?)
My opinion.
During the tape, the suspect is on the ground with the officer drawn down on him, and is clearly illuminated by the deputy's flashlight. There is a dialog and while the officer doesn't have verbal control of the suspect, the dialog isn't overly aggressive (in my opinion.) The officer is issuing an order ("get up, get up, get up") and the suspect replies ("I'm getting up.") which is just good form for anyone to do anytime you are given an order (particularly by someone aiming a gun at you.) Unless the investigation turns out that the suspect had a weapon (which I haven't heard about) then it sounds like the officer may have overreacted to the situation (giving him the benefit of the doubt in that he may have interpreted the suspect's movement as hostile or aggressive.)
It's a known phenomenon for adrenaline to cause an abnormal fight/flight response in an officer during a stressful or prolonged situation--and any type of high speed pursuit tends to be both. So what may be an innocent action or an accident can be perceived as a threat and responded to as a threat (using as an example the NYPD Street Crimes shooting of Amadou Diallo in 1999).
At the end of the day, I think the officer made a bunch of bad calls that culminated in a shooting. I can't say the situation was ideal in the slightest, but I don't know the reason for the "get up" order. I can understand the officer inability to go hands-on and apply restrain and search the suspect, mainly due to the night and his need to maintain the light on the suspect, in combination with the necessity for the weapon until the situation is controlled, but good form would have been to have the suspect prone out from his position where he is more easily controlled and watched until enough manpower or the situation changes so that he can be restrained and searched. There doesn't appear to be enough manpower present (strange at the end of a high speed chase) to effect a proper arrest, so "get up" was definately the wrong call.
Without anything other then a couple watchings of the tape on TV, I can't say that the shooting was "criminal" (something I've heard a few times already), but it was definately a tragedy. It's a miracle the suspect/veteran is still alive.
As a final note, I'm not an officer, but a tactical paramedic, which puts a slant on my opinion. Many of the stressors are the same, but the transitions much worse. Imagine going from talking on the phone with the wife and kids while eating a burger in your car to a high-speed pursuit to having to trying to make snap decisions weighing a belligerent person's actions versus your ability to go home to said wife/kids with all that "fight/flight" adrenaline pumping through your system. And, as a general rule, flight isn't considered much of an option (though, to forestall argument, is something that should always be considered, but c'mon, you're a cop, y'know?)
My opinion.
Diver Dennis
Contributor
colt:
Yes colt it is good news that he will live. The point you make about subduing him on the ground is a good one. Why would the officer ask him to stand? Don't they usually tell them to get on the ground? I'm not a police officer so I don't know the procedure. We might be hearing the wrong thing on the tape. Tough to call.
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