Planned deco on a recreational dive?

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I agree with the sentiment that the simple answer should be, for those who are inexperienced or new OW divers, stay within your computer's (or tables) NDL.
If you find staying safely within NDL limits is not sufficient for the type of diving you wish to pursue, get the necessary training.
 
Wow, care to cite your sources for this?

Because then I'd have gotten bent about 30 times already in my (short) dive career.

??? Take a look at your math. If (to pull a number out of my a$$) your risk is normally 1% (1 out of 100 dives), a 25% increase is still only 1.25% (1 out of 80 dives). Not a major increase IMO, though still measurable.
 
"Planned deco on a recreational dive?"

The whole title is jacked as no "recreational" dive includes planned deco. "Planned" deco automatically places it in the technical dive category.

Depends on the agency.
BSAC teaches diving that requires compulsory decompression as part of its recreational training.
BSAC Ocean Diver - No Stop Diving, Max depth 20m
BSAC Sports Diver - Decompression Diving, Max Depth 35m
BSAC Dive Leader - Lead (not instruct) divers under training. Max Depth 50m (although now recommend to have additional mixed gas training for dives beyond 40m)
BSAC Advanced Diver - Expedition Leader.
BSAC First Class -
Guide to BSAC Recreational Diver Qualifications

Technical qualifications are a parallel line of qualifications.

It does cause friction with diving facilities when they are not familiar with the qualifications.
As with many things, there are variables with the divers. I know many that avoid dives involving compulsory decompression. Whilst others routinely complete dives that would make some technical divers think twice.

Gareth
 
??? Take a look at your math. If (to pull a number out of my a$$) your risk is normally 1% (1 out of 100 dives), a 25% increase is still only 1.25% (1 out of 80 dives). Not a major increase IMO, though still measurable.

This was already relayed / understood on page 7/8 of this thread. It was a misunderstanding of the way I originally explained the 25% increase in risk of DCS.
 
??? Take a look at your math. If (to pull a number out of my a$$) your risk is normally 1% (1 out of 100 dives), a 25% increase is still only 1.25% (1 out of 80 dives). Not a major increase IMO, though still measurable.

Maybe not a concern if your lifetime dives is less than the numbers quoted.

More of a concern if you do that volume of dives every 60 days.

Just saying.... :wink:
 
The whole title is jacked as no "recreational" dive includes planned deco. "Planned" deco automatically places it in the technical dive category.

Recreational diving includes technical diving, as well as wreck and cave diving, among others. Since basic SCUBA training is for NDL diving, it behooves a diver to obtain an understanding of deco diving before placing himself into that situation.

Any dive involves managing risk, A diver should try to avoid situations where they do not understand the risk.



Bob
 
Recreational diving includes technical diving, as well as wreck and cave diving, among others. Since basic SCUBA training is for NDL diving, it behooves a diver to obtain an understanding of deco diving before placing himself into that situation.

Any dive involves managing risk, A diver should try to avoid situations where they do not understand the risk.



Bob

As this is in the "Basic" section of the forum and the OP alluded to a traditional recreational dive, lets not mince words simply for arguments sake. There are very clear lines drawn between "recreational" diving and "technical" diving so lets not get into the whole semantics or gotchas. There is no "recreational" dive in this section that includes deco. Can you do a "technical" dive that is recreational, sure you can as the whole concept of diving short of professional work is recreational/hobby.
 
This thread is in the basic section because the OP put it here and no one asked to have it moved, even though looking at the conversation it should have been moved to advanced.

I did my deco diving as a recreational diver as technical diving, as a specialty, did not exist back then. I look at deco as part of the continuum of diving and believe that one should educate themselves about deco and the issues involved as one may have to deal with it in an emergency.

I guess I had the same sort of training that Garth describes in the BSAC model.


Bob
 
Just following on from my previous post. To give you some idea of equivalents for those not used to the BSAC model.

BSAC Ocean diver is basically equivalent to PADI OW.
BSAC Sports Diver similar to PADI Rescue, but with the addition of Decompression diving and DSMB.
BSAC Dive Leader, similar to PADI DM.

Nitrox is included in the core training scheme like a number of other agencies, so Ocean Divers can use Nitrox (up to 36%) in theory only on air tables, and Sports Divers can use custom mixes to 36% and Nitrox tables.

Once you move beyond that then I am not sure where you are on equivalents.
BSAC Advanced Diver is basically an Expedition Leader, and BSAC First Class Diver moves you beyond that.


If you look at the PADI model where their next move is to instructor qualifications, or in PADI's eyes 'professional'.
BSAC instructor qualifications basically run parallel from BSAC Sports diver on (this is the point where you can attend instructor training course). To hold a BSAC instructor qualification you most hold a minimum diving qualification of BSAC Dive Leader.

Technical qualifications are again a series of diving qualifications in there own right, with the starting assumption of BSAC Sports Diver to enter.

Part of the complication is that BSAC is fundamentally a club system, not a commercial model like most of the American systems.
 
Am I being a scuba prude for having this leave a bad after-taste in my mouth? I mean, I was not planning to venture into the technical realm just yet. As a recreational diver I am inclined to stick to the limits suggested by PADI. 5 meters deeper than 40 just because its more thrilling (or whatever their reasoning) seems like asking for trouble to me. Am I alone in these thoughts? Feel like I'm on a rant here, but I'm very curious if this is an exception or if this actually happens a lot in dive centers (i.e. customers asking to dip their toes a little beyond the recreational realm (especially when it comes to depth and deco stops) and dive centers agreeing.

I am not a technical diver and so I have not taken the great Oath of Silence, the mantle of responsibility of never divulging the secrets of technical diving to those who have not gone through the formal training that is the one and only way that makes it safe to harbor this knowledge.

I think it would be useful, when this topic comes up, as it does perennially, to actually talk about the things a responsible technical diver might do for a dive like this. I'll try, even though I haven't had the formal training.

For those of us more accustomed to feet, a 45 meter dive is 147 feet. I'm presuming this dive is done on a single gas.

1) Conducting a responsible dive to 147 feet would require actual gas planning individually and as a team. All divers would have to have an accurate, realistic assessment of their SAC for the conditions of the dive. While gas planning is, nominally, taught in OW and revisited in AOW and Deep Diver classes, it is unusual for recreational divers to plan their gas usage in a thorough, formal way, that includes contingencies and covers the varying needs of each member of the dive team.

2) A diver conducting a responsible dive to 147 feet would have a redundant air supply available so that the dive could be completed safely in the event of a loss of gas, even if a buddy is not available to share gas. Either backmount, manifolded doubles or sidemount doubles would be considered suitable for this. In either case, training in normal and emergency procedures for the chosen system would be customary and would be drilled to the point where the actions are rapid and automatic. It is my understanding that a pony or stage bottle alone, even if sufficient from a gas planning standpoint, is not considered sufficient at this depth.

3) Each diver would carry redundant instruments for measurement of time and depth, in most cases in the form of a backup dive computer. Each diver would be intimately familiar with the operation, during a deco dive, of their primary computer and (if different) their backup computer.

4) The dive would ordinarily be planned with an effective external means of controlling depth at the decompression stops, such as the use of an anchor line, shot line, upline, or SMB, rather than relying solely on control of buoyancy. The divers involved would be familiar with the use of each of these, during deco, and would have practiced with them. This would be done despite the fact that divers contemplating such a dive would be expected to have excellent buoyancy control skills.

5) The possible effects of narcosis would be considered, and depending on the nature of the dive, diver preferences, gas availability, cost considerations, and the agency whose training is being followed, a gas mix including some helium might be used. If so, this would lead to its own set of procedures and protocols for blending, analyzing, and marking cylinder contents.

6) Typically this would be a dry suit dive. If conducted using wetsuits, particular attention would be given to contingency planning for BCD failure.

7) By the book, there would be some formal contingency planning for foreseeable problems, a risk assessment, and some drills prior to or during descent. I don't know whether these are honored any more in practice than BWRAF or not. Minimally, this might result in making sure oxygen is available at the surface, for example, or making sure there is a safety diver on deck who has additional deco gas available.

The point here being that it's not just about holding a different color C-card. Conducting dives to these depths, safely, requires different equipment and procedures, and requires the automatic reactions that come from actually doing the drills.
 
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