Pivot vs Horizontal

[The Kraken]

I truly don't want to start a war here, but would a PADI instructor explain to me why "fin pivots" are taught in OW class instead of a "horizontal ascent"?

Please understand, I am not PADI bashing. It's the agency through which I received my certification. But having read many posts of newbies silting up the bottom it occurred to me that the "fin pivot" could probably be one of the contributing factors to this action.

It seems to me that instruction in fin pivoting is neglecting the basic concept of proper trim in weighting.

Yes, I know it's the initial instruction in scuba diving, but isn't this where proper trim/buoyancy should be taught?

 

[Marek K]

I truly don't want to start a war here, but would a PADI instructor explain to me why "fin pivots" are taught in OW class... ?

Kraken--

Sorry, I'm far from an instructor. Good question, though! I don't think PADI's method (and not just theirs) is all that evil. I think the fin pivot is intended to be a transitional and fairly easy way to detemine close-to-neutral buoyancy for beginners. The assumption is that it's a clean sandy bottom -- or a concrete swimming pool.

For what it's worth, when my kid was undergoing his OWD course last summer, the fin pivot was of course taught. But then all the students had to do a hover for like two minutes in the pool -- at about eight feet of depth. Some were more successful than others...

Hell, when I learned in 1986, I don't remember PADI teaching anything other than fin pivot!!

I agree, there should be more work on neutral buoyancy. But it could be (and has been!) argued that there should be a lot more work in a lot of stuff in OWD!!

Now maybe we'll get an instructor's response...

--Marek

 

[Dive-aholic]

I'm a DM, not an instructor. Like Marek says, you have to start somewhere. You don't learn to walk until after you've learned to crawl. You need to learn some form of buoyancy control - upper body with fins on bottom - before you learn more buoyancy control - hover. I agree, though, that a lot of instructors will teach the PADI basics and never elaborate on anything. I don't think it's necessarily completely their fault though. A lot of LDSs won't devote the time necessary to develop the buoyancy control. 24 hours in the classroom and pool and out you go to open water. A lot of instructors on this Board say they do require their students to perform CW2-3 skills in the fin pivot and CW4-5 skills while hovering. It should be a general requirement!

 

[ScubaTwo]

I truly don't want to start a war here, but would a PADI instructor explain to me why "fin pivots" are taught in OW class instead of a "horizontal ascent"?

Please understand, I am not PADI bashing. It's the agency through which I received my certification. But having read many posts of newbies silting up the bottom it occurred to me that the "fin pivot" could probably be one of the contributing factors to this action.

It seems to me that instruction in fin pivoting is neglecting the basic concept of proper trim in weighting.

Yes, I know it's the initial instruction in scuba diving, but isn't this where proper trim/buoyancy should be taught?

My instructor used the fin pivot in the pool to teach us how to contol our buoyancy with our breathing. Understanding that made the next step of staying off the bottom and hovering much easier.

 

[cal2632]

I never could get the fin pivot thing to save my life, but I could hover without a problem. Go figure.

 

[ScubaTwo]

I never could get the fin pivot thing to save my life, but I could hover without a problem. Go figure.

I know how you feel. I have floaty feet so I always ended up horizontal anyway. As my instuctor explained it to me, he wasnt trying to teach us the fin pivot as a skill in itself. It was the breathing contol thing. So to him it didnt matter if it was done as the fin pivot or horizontal. Either way it was our first step to understanding buoyancy control. Now if only my feet would pay attension!

 

[The Kraken]

I guess I should have gone on to add that the fin pivot, in and of itself, is not a fate worse than death, buy why not spend the extra little time to explain trimming procedures and use the fin pivot as a transitional point.

I don't know, but it just seems that I would be so easy for the instructor, at this point, to say, "Hey, now all we need to do is shift some weight here or there and you'll be relatively trimmed out."

It just seems to me that teaching the fin pivot and going no further, in effect, implies to the student that this is a reasonable position to assume at the bottom.

Was just wondering, that's all . . .

 

[MikeFerrara]

I suppose the pin fivot can be used to demonstrate a couple of things. The effect of breathing on buoyancy being one.

The problem I have with it is that if a diver is correctly weighted and balanced for horizontal trim their whole body will rise off the bottom as they inhale. That's ok but instructors will sometimes mess up a divers trim by weighting them so they can do a pin fivot and then they're stuck diving like crap until they find some one to help them fix it. Some instructor even dress themselves funny so they can do it. LOL...monkey see, monkey do.

A pin fivot can be done if you're correctly balanced but you have to really arch your back to keep your fins on the bottom. What's the point of that? Well it's sort of a bass ackward COG drill.

 

[Jason B]

When I did my drysuit class we were to drop to a platform and do a fin pivot. When it was my turn I swam over the platform and just hovered to demonstate that I could maintain buoyancy. The instructor grabbed my feet and pushed them to the platform to force me to do a fin pivot. What is up with that?

Jason

 

[ScubaTwo]

why not spend the extra little time to explain trimming procedures and use the fin pivot as a transitional point.

I don't know, but it just seems that I would be so easy for the instructor, at this point, to say, "Hey, now all we need to do is shift some weight here or there and you'll be relatively trimmed out."

Cant speak for other ppl of course but thats how my instructor did it.