Photos from a PADI Instructor Course Downunder in Sydney, Australia...

[mheaster]

Probably true. Hadn't thought too much about videos.

I think people in PADI HQ have at least heard and I think it will be researched and consideration given to progress in that direction.

Granted, things move slowly though!

Apologies for hijacking thread, I hereby return it back to you!
Congratulations on your very successful IDC!

 

[Karibelle]

mh -- one of the real issues with this, at least with PADI, is that almost all, if not all, of the video presentations show everything being done "on the knees" whether in the pool OR in "open water." So even if all they see in real life is prone/neutral, they also have the video images which are all knees/negative/vertical. I find it does cause problems.

I wonder if that is partly because then it's easier for the student to see what is being demonstrated when the instructor is on his knees. Do you have clips of PADI skills being demo'd in a prone position? I find that demonstrating skills in that position is more challenging sometimes, in terms of my visual relationship with the student, where my hands are and what they can see. Not true for all skills of course, but if such clips existed I'd love to see them.

kari

 

[muddiver]

Yes, I was referring to the folks on their knees in the pool. I wouldn't expect anyone to stand for a long period on land in hot weather!

It's because if they stand up, they are not underwater anymore.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I wonder if that is partly because then it's easier for the student to see what is being demonstrated when the instructor is on his knees. Do you have clips of PADI skills being demo'd in a prone position? I find that demonstrating skills in that position is more challenging sometimes, in terms of my visual relationship with the student, where my hands are and what they can see. Not true for all skills of course, but if such clips existed I'd love to see them.

kari

Watch the 5thdx videos on you tube. That is how to demo skills.

you tube - Google Search

I also will turn perpendicular towards the student so they can see the hand placement. But this has also been done previously in the snorkel/skin dive portion before going on scuba for the mask skill anyway. For an instructor demoing skills that way should not be difficult. You are expected to have excellent buoyancy control and trim.

 

[Karibelle]

Watch the 5thdx videos on you tube. That is how to demo skills.

you tube - Google Search

I also will turn perpendicular towards the student so they can see the hand placement. But this has also been done previously in the snorkel/skin dive portion before going on scuba for the mask skill anyway. For an instructor demoing skills that way should not be difficult. You are expected to have excellent buoyancy control and trim.

Thanks, Jim. I was referring specifically to PADI OW skills, as that is what I teach. I'm not concerned so much about MY buoyancy control and trim, but rather, as I stated, my visual relationship with the students. I appreciate the link, but only one of those videos related directly to my question.

kari

 

[Peter Guy]

Kari -- I typically show both the 5th DX videos AND the PADI ones to the class and explain the differences -- and why I hope they will model the 5th DX ones.

Honestly, for most of the skills, I don't think it makes a difference from a video perspective.

I've really come to believe that the skills are shown "on the knees" because of historical accident. There wasn't any thought -- no grand conspiracy -- just that when "we" started, at depth we were heavy (overweighted) due to suit compression -- since there was a sandy bottom, there wasn't any reason NOT to kneel and do the skills.

I'd like to believe that diving has progressed since the mid-1960's and maybe, just perhaps, the training images will progress also.

 

[Peter Guy]

Kari -- what skills would you like to see? I use clips from the 5th DX DVD (with permission I might add!) that show:

a. Mask flood clear;
b. Mask remove/replace;
c. Regulator recovery;
d. Timed, horizontal ascent (which has the additional benefit of having one of the divers in a dry suit since at least 25% of our OW divers are in dry suits); and
e. Air shares.

Admittedly, some of what is shown on the 5th DX videos may not be "PADIfied" -- for example, no blowing of bubbles during the regulator recovery when the reg is out of the mouth -- and the S-drills (air shares) are not a "standard PADI type" but they ARE within standards in that the donating diver does take control of the diver and the situation.

IF you get the "technical" DVD (I think that is the right one) you will also see how they break down each skill.

 

[boulderjohn]

I just became aware of this thread and will try to jump in all at once on several points.

The aforementioned PADI article has actually not been published yet--it is scheduled for the next edition of the Undersea Journal. They just asked me for high res versions of some photos we sent in with the article, so I guess you will get a glimpse of things as well.

When I posed for the pictures, I had to do some of the skills on my knees for the comparison photos, something I had not done in several years. I was shocked by how much more weight I needed, how awkward I felt, and how much harder the skills were to perform.

mh -- one of the real issues with this, at least with PADI, is that almost all, if not all, of the video presentations show everything being done "on the knees" whether in the pool OR in "open water."

I think people in PADI HQ have at least heard and I think it will be researched and consideration given to progress in that direction.

Peter pointed this out to me when we were drafting the article, and I mentioned it when I first submitted the first draft to the training department. The reply was essentially, "Holy Cow! You're right." They said they would start making new videos.

The overall reaction from the training department was extremely positive.

As for the research, there was a lot of stuff in the first draft. It was taken out because of length and the fact that once it gets published in the official journal, it will have the obvious blessing of PADI and the justification will not be needed.

I wonder if that is partly because then it's easier for the student to see what is being demonstrated when the instructor is on his knees. Do you have clips of PADI skills being demo'd in a prone position?

Part of our research (also omitted in the final draft) indicates nothing of the sort. Dive historian Dr. Sam Miller was especially helpful in this. Apparently instruction of skills began on the knees in the early days because before BCDs that was really the only way to do it. Even when the horse collar was introduced, that had to be orally inflated, and it put people in an upright position.

Essentially, the reason it has been done on the knees is because that's the way it had to be done in the past for practical reasons that no longer exist. Like so many things in life, traditions die hard, even when the original reason for them is lost in time.

 

[Karibelle]

John, I had a side conversation with Peter where I realized that there was some confusion on my part with the terminology... "Prone position" as he described makes sense to me; I had misinterpreted the use of that term. My comments were specifically related to the difficulty *I* had in seeing what was happening while watching the specific clips that had been posted by Jim.