Petrel vs. ????

[victorzamora]

I asked this question because the Petrel has such good reviews. I will never tech diver or use tri mix. I am a recreational diver that uses air right now but will be changing over to nitrox. I get that the Petrel is an amazing computer and is the best at what it does but is it necessary for what I will be doing. I don't go deeper then 120 feet and to be honest I can't see my self doing that. So for what I am doing is this the best option for me. I don't care about the money just what is needed for my style

You're clearly never going to push the Petrel to its limits. Few people have or will. It's just a fact. If you're wanting a cheaper computer, get a Hollis DG03 for $250 and be happy forever. The UI isn't as nice, the screen isn't as nice, it's not as flexible, the battery isn't super common, and the support is mediocre. But you'll never push it to the limits, either. The Hollis DG03 is the opposite end of the spectrum from the Petrel, in that it's as cheap as you can get away with while maintaining all of the features you need. Please note that AI is not a feature you need, but it does have AI capabilities. If you're asking which computer is best for you, my answer is either get the Petrel or the DG03 depending on what you're willing to spend. There's no point in spending as much or more than a Petrel and getting a sub-par computer. The Aeris A300CS, the new Eon Steel thing, any Suunto, any Mares, any other Oceanic/Hollis/Aeris computer on the market.....it's just not worth the money. The only computers that have a glimmer of hope to be compared to the Petrel are the Liquivision computers which are simply not as solid. They have more of the "features" you're talking about wanting, but it's simply not worth the trade-offs.

To continue on the gun analogy from earlier, it's not rifles vs shotguns. All computers have the same purpose: To track your tissue loading status as best as it can guess. Buying anything else is like turning down a high-end competition rifle because the Wal-mart brand one at the same price has a compass in the buttstock and foam padding under the barrel. Neither help you, but you're turning down the best to get the worst. The DG03 is like getting a decent rifle at a third the price because it still does everything you want, just not as well.

Comparing it to cars, it's as if dive computers were race cars......and turning down the new 458 Speciale for a Focus because the 458 doesn't have a radio...even though they're similarly priced. Not something you need on the track, and it can actually hurt your performance.

 

[tbone1004]

well that is again where you have to decide for yourself. The Petrel in recreational nitrox mode is the best computer on the market for that type of diving. It doesn't give you anything you don't need, though it might not have some things that you want, but it doesn't lack anything that you need.

Cheaper computers will have all that you need, hell a used Suunto Zoop for $200 is all you actually need, but it is lacking in many things. If you want to download your dive profiles and make notes in a really nice dive log program, Shearwater has the best, and it is done via bluetooth and they include a small USB bluetooth dongle, other computers have it but you need proprietary cables, and/or the software isn't as nice. Want to know average depth to calculate your air consumption? Not all of the cheap computers display that, Zoop is one of them, sure it's nice and cheap, but without average depth and gauge mode, there is no point, when you can get all that from the DG03, sure the screen isn't as nice and the UI blows on the computer itself, but it gives you average depth which is crucial for dive planning.

For me computer selection has to hit the following criteria
No lock-out, if I intentionally have to blow a deco stop I don't want it getting mad at me and becoming a brick for 24+ hours.
Has to have a non proprietary download function, bluetooth, standard USB cables etc.
Has to have average depth
Has to have gauge mode-not needed if you aren't tech diving, but good to have just in case
Has to have either rechargeable lipo, or non wacky easy to replace batteries.

That comes down to the Nitek Q, and the Petrel. The xDeep would fit, but they are only half fitting because while the cable is proprietary, it does come with it. Nitek uses a USB cable, but it is the mini-usb that is used on the gopro, so cheap and easy to find.
The Nitek is currently $500, xDeep is currently $630, and Petrel is $850. Pick one of them and you'll be happy with it, price directly correlates to how nice they are, and the features they offer. Note, Dive Rite doesn't include a Nitek with their CCR right now despite having a Q that will integrate with an O2 sensor for PO2 monitoring, the Optima is run by a Petrel, and has a Nerd or second Petrel as backup monitor, and the Q4 CCR has been discontinued. No offense to Dive Rite, but that should say something about how good the Shearwater computers are....

 

[Wookie]

Grumpy troll. Don't feed it.

Yeah, but he's a cute grumpy troll.

If I don't go with a Petrel why would that make u happy. Sarcasm?

Because he spent many thousands of dollars on Atomic computers when we all said "buy a Predator". He had great luck with the Atomic computer, as in, they only went back to the factory 2 or 3 times, and he got half what he paid for them when he sold them.

---------- Post added November 11th, 2014 at 10:23 AM ----------

You're clearly never going to push the Petrel to its limits.

I dive 300 feet on O/C trimix fairly regularly. I don't feel that my Predator (the predecessor to the Petrel) has ever been what I would call pushed.

 

[stuartv]

I asked this question because the Petrel has such good reviews. I will never tech diver or use tri mix. I am a recreational diver that uses air right now but will be changing over to nitrox. I get that the Petrel is an amazing computer and is the best at what it does but is it necessary for what I will be doing. I don't go deeper then 120 feet and to be honest I can't see my self doing that. So for what I am doing is this the best option for me. I don't care about the money just what is needed for my style

You're clearly never going to push the Petrel to its limits. Few people have or will. It's just a fact. If you're wanting a cheaper computer, get a Hollis DG03 for $250 and be happy forever. The UI isn't as nice, the screen isn't as nice, it's not as flexible, the battery isn't super common, and the support is mediocre.

...

The Aeris A300CS, the new Eon Steel thing, any Suunto, any Mares, any other Oceanic/Hollis/Aeris computer on the market.....it's just not worth the money. The only computers that have a glimmer of hope to be compared to the Petrel are the Liquivision computers which are simply not as solid. They have more of the "features" you're talking about wanting, but it's simply not worth the trade-offs.

I am always fascinated at how some people here put their own personal - subjective - values on other people.

Read your list of downsides for the DG03 then tell us again how it is that you expect that he would be happy forever?? Maybe re-read the first quote in this post, where the OP says that it's not about the money.

Then to say that all those other computers are "just not worth the money"... Where is any remotely objective assessment to support that statement? The OP already said it's not about the money. So, are you saying that the (for example) Aeris A300CS OLED is not nicer than the DG03? As you've told me before, I'm an ignorant newb and know nothing. But, when I look at those two, the screen on the A300CS sure does LOOK like it would be a lot nicer to use than the DG03. If you agree, then who are you to tell the OP that that nicer screen is not worth the extra money to him? The nicer screen is a commonly cited reason to spend the extra money for a Petrel... And the A300CS would give the OP the option for wireless AI, if he decides he wants that. You may not put any value on that, but then you often give a strong impression that your values on computers are significantly biased by what is good for Tech diving, and the OP has made it clear that he has NO plans for Tech diving. So, for HIM, wireless AI MAY be of value. He may want it and it's up to HIM to decide whether it's worth the money for the transmitter.

The Hollis TX-1 also seems like it would be an option. $750 with wireless AI, bungee mount, and the USB download cable. $500 without the wireless AI transmitter. That puts it at only $130 more than a DG03, with the same accessories. And it has more Tech capabilities than the DG03 (which you have emphasized as having value). And it's relatively new and supported going forward. Plus, from my ignorant newb perspective, it LOOKS like the display on it is nicer than the DG03 display, and it has two buttons for controls, so I have a suspicion that it might be a little easier to navigate the settings.

You ended with saying that those other computers are "not worth the trade-offs." But, you didn't actually say what the tradeoffs are. Leave Wireless AI aside, since the option for that does not have to be purchased or used. What is the trade off in using, say, an A300CS compared to a Petrel, for Recreational diving only? It may cost more than a Petrel? Petrel has better customer support? But does that mean the A300CS has crappy customer support? Is the A300CS unreliable? Is a simple algorithm (on the A300CS) really a downside? Should a Rec diver with no Tech training even have the option to set their own Gradient Factors? Is the A300CS OLED screen actually a tradeoff? It sure looks nice. And the size of the A300CS sure does look like a plus to it versus the Petrel. The A300CS doesn't use regular AA batteries? Okay, but for a Rec-only diver who generally probably should take the gear in to be serviced annually, is it a big deal to tell them they need to have the battery replaced then? It uses a regular CR2 battery, which can be purchased at Walmart and they aren't expensive. And the A300CS has a digital 3-axis compass. Sure, it might not be as accurate as a standalone compass. And it might require him to switch his screen away from other important info. But, for the OP and Rec only diving, how often is he really going to use his compass for any serious navigating? This PDC could allow a diver to dive with no console at all. All instruments in one place on his wrist. And only 2 hoses coming off his 1st stage (if he uses a hybrid octo). And if he's a warm water, vacation resort type diver, with no intentions of ever going Tech, what is wrong with that?

Or, if the OP doesn't care about wireless AI, then what about the Aeris Manta? $200. Nitrox capable. Gauge mode. The display looks (to my ignorant eye) nicer than the DG03. Optional download cable kit (and remember the DG03 download cable is $100 extra). And it's less money. Why spend the extra $50 for a DG03? What is the trade-off FOR THE OP who doesn't care about Tech?

You have made it clear that the Petrel is the right computer for you. Personally, I have no opinion on what is right for the OP. I'm just responding to this to say that it doesn't seem to me like you've actually articulated the facts to support your statements on why the Petrel or the DG03 are the best choices for him and his diving. I have given some examples that, to the inexperienced like me and possibly the OP, SEEM like maybe they would be better choices for the OP (Rec only diving, for whom money is not the issue), and which you haven't (at least to this ignorant newb) really explained why they aren't as good as they seem.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I get that the Petrel is an amazing computer and is the best at what it does but is it necessary for what I will be doing. . . .

"Necessary"? You could dive with no computer at all. If you want a computer, get one that you think is a good value and has the features that are of interest to YOU. Some people want AI and will pay more for it. Other people will pay more to NOT have AI or other bells and whistles, perhaps believing that the manufacturer instead invests the premium into things that may not be readily apparent to most consumers, like engineering details, rugged construction, customer service, etc. My understanding (I don't own a Shearwater) is that some people perceive Shearwater computers as high-end products that might be analogized to high-end products in other categories of goods. A few that occur to me offhand include automobiles of the type more suited for the racetrack than the interstate, audiophile equipment, Apple products, Swiss watches, and single-speed bicycles. "High-end" stuff tends to be more expensive, yet somewhat paradoxically, have fewer features than lower-priced items of their category. The elegant simplicity of it appeals to a certain kind of consumer. Some iPhone fans will fully acknowledge that the iPhone isn't as full-featured as Android phones, but they have it in their minds that the iPhone does everything they need it to, avoids unnecessary distractions, is better engineered, is backed by a company worthy of their trust, etc. Other people want a phone that provides every conceivable feature. Another analogy might be to products that are more commercial in nature than consumer-grade. For instance, a bakery might have a workhorse of a scale that uses a balance beam and weights, even though a less expensive digital scale would work fine. Shearwater is clearly priced as a consumer-grade product, but some people may see it more like a lab instrument than a kitchen scale.

 

[poomero]

I am always fascinated at how some people here put their own personal - subjective - values on other people.

Read your list of downsides for the DG03 then tell us again how it is that you expect that he would be happy forever?? Maybe re-read the first quote in this post, where the OP says that it's not about the money.

Then to say that all those other computers are "just not worth the money"... Where is any remotely objective assessment to support that statement? The OP already said it's not about the money. So, are you saying that the (for example) Aeris A300CS OLED is not nicer than the DG03? As you've told me before, I'm an ignorant newb and know nothing. But, when I look at those two, the screen on the A300CS sure does LOOK like it would be a lot nicer to use than the DG03. If you agree, then who are you to tell the OP that that nicer screen is not worth the extra money to him? The nicer screen is a commonly cited reason to spend the extra money for a Petrel... And the A300CS would give the OP the option for wireless AI, if he decides he wants that. You may not put any value on that, but then you often give a strong impression that your values on computers are significantly biased by what is good for Tech diving, and the OP has made it clear that he has NO plans for Tech diving. So, for HIM, wireless AI MAY be of value. He may want it and it's up to HIM to decide whether it's worth the money for the transmitter.

The Hollis TX-1 also seems like it would be an option. $750 with wireless AI, bungee mount, and the USB download cable. $500 without the wireless AI transmitter. That puts it at only $130 more than a DG03, with the same accessories. And it has more Tech capabilities than the DG03 (which you have emphasized as having value). And it's relatively new and supported going forward. Plus, from my ignorant newb perspective, it LOOKS like the display on it is nicer than the DG03 display, and it has two buttons for controls, so I have a suspicion that it might be a little easier to navigate the settings.

You ended with saying that those other computers are "not worth the trade-offs." But, you didn't actually say what the tradeoffs are. Leave Wireless AI aside, since the option for that does not have to be purchased or used. What is the trade off in using, say, an A300CS compared to a Petrel, for Recreational diving only? It may cost more than a Petrel? Petrel has better customer support? But does that mean the A300CS has crappy customer support? Is the A300CS unreliable? Is a simple algorithm (on the A300CS) really a downside? Should a Rec diver with no Tech training even have the option to set their own Gradient Factors? Is the A300CS OLED screen actually a tradeoff? It sure looks nice. And the size of the A300CS sure does look like a plus to it versus the Petrel. The A300CS doesn't use regular AA batteries? Okay, but for a Rec-only diver who generally probably should take the gear in to be serviced annually, is it a big deal to tell them they need to have the battery replaced then? It uses a regular CR2 battery, which can be purchased at Walmart and they aren't expensive. And the A300CS has a digital 3-axis compass. Sure, it might not be as accurate as a standalone compass. And it might require him to switch his screen away from other important info. But, for the OP and Rec only diving, how often is he really going to use his compass for any serious navigating? This PDC could allow a diver to dive with no console at all. All instruments in one place on his wrist. And only 2 hoses coming off his 1st stage (if he uses a hybrid octo). And if he's a warm water, vacation resort type diver, with no intentions of ever going Tech, what is wrong with that?

Or, if the OP doesn't care about wireless AI, then what about the Aeris Manta? $200. Nitrox capable. Gauge mode. The display looks (to my ignorant eye) nicer than the DG03. Optional download cable kit (and remember the DG03 download cable is $100 extra). And it's less money. Why spend the extra $50 for a DG03? What is the trade-off FOR THE OP who doesn't care about Tech?

You have made it clear that the Petrel is the right computer for you. Personally, I have no opinion on what is right for the OP. I'm just responding to this to say that it doesn't seem to me like you've actually articulated the facts to support your statements on why the Petrel or the DG03 are the best choices for him and his diving. I have given some examples that, to the inexperienced like me and possibly the OP, SEEM like maybe they would be better choices for the OP (Rec only diving, for whom money is not the issue), and which you haven't (at least to this ignorant newb) really explained why they aren't as good as they seem.

This is what I am looking for. Thank you for asking the questions and pointing out the info you did. My last computer was the luna with a transmitter and it was a good computer. Just trying to figure out what set up to go with next and why.

 

[Wookie]

Sadly, I can't help you much. I will tell you the following. I operate a technical and recreational liveaboard dive boat, and I've seen hundreds of Shearwaters, and also many other kinds of computers. Here is what I've seen:

I've never seen a Shearwater fail, unless it ran out of battery on a dive. This has happened to me, Shearwater has since fixed the problem. With a firmware upgrade. I didn't even have to send it in.

I have seen maybe 50 Cobalts. Maybe 25% of them will fail on any given trip. In fact, maybe 25% of all hosed AI computers will fail on any given trip. Why? Because folks aren't careful connecting and disconnecting the hose, and they get a drop of water in the pressure cell. That is instant death for a hosed AI computer. It would be for a SPG also, but no one takes their SPG off the hose in the middle of a dive trip...

I know that Cochran isn't on your list. They get confused and the AI locks up underwater. I now know how to trick them into re-booting, and going into factory reset. That's a lot of fun in the middle of a dive trip.

Luna/ScubaPro dive computers. One of the more reliable of the hoseless AI computers. The display is nothing like the petrel. If you want bright, the SP computers don't fill the bill.

None of the rest really make an impression either way. As has been said earlier, there are a plethora of $200 computers out there that will fit your needs. Anything after that is merely bells and whistles. I have almost 1,000 dives on my Predator, with no problems except for running out of battery on that one dive. Get one that has a menu easy to understand. The Shearwater is intuitive. Others not so much. When you're standing at the top of the ladder and the DM wants to know your depth and bottom time, and your dive computer just went into post dive mode and you can't get the information for 5 minutes (yes, those computers do exist), standing at the top of the dive ladder isn't the time to figure out that you can't do anything with your computer for 5 minutes.

 

[tbone1004]

The 300 is a nice computer, but it's expensive, don't like the CR2 batteries since they don't match up to anything else and are comparatively expensive. Not the end of the world, it's just expensive for what it is. The compass is really a joke because of how much battery it uses and how little real world application it has, the slate video I posted above is far more useful and much cheaper.

If they had put a AA battery in there to power it, it would be a lot more viable. Aeris is now owned by Oceanic, which also owns Hollis, so the CS isn't great, but it's not bad by any means, no worse than most of the big dive manufacturers. Dive Rite and Shearwater have a special kind of crazy when it comes to taking care of their customers, very few others do. It's a nice computer, it's a nice screen, but the only reason to buy it over the Petrel is if you want AI, then you jump from $950 to $1300 for the price, cost of ownership is higher with the CR2 batteries, and if something goes wrong, you're likely to get told to shove off if you hear anything back at all.

If you want a high end AI computer, it's probably the best one on the market now until the Eon Steel is released officially at the end of the month, but that is going to be what $1900 for the Eon and one transmitter? Compass and AI shouldn't be worth that much to anybody.

You mentioned the TX-1, the TX-1 is the DG03 replacement, but to get the $500 price you quoted, you have to trade in a computer, still doesn't have the USB cable, and is twice the money of DG03, so not a good value, when for another $100 you can get the xDeep with Nitrox and a much better screen, or for the same price you can get the Q which is just a better computer overall. You lose AI with both, but the point is you really don't need it, and the DG03 with AI is only $500 right now, so why would you spend a few hundred more to upgrade to the TX1? Just doesn't compute

 

[decompression]

No one ever seems to mention the HW OSTC series. Similar features and cost. Even a couple of features not available on the petrel. I'd be curious as to how support and availability is considering its of German origin. That said, I have a petrel and I'm glad to support a local company.

http://www.heinrichsweikamp.com/?id=63


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[undrwater]

Honestly, grumpiness and opinions aside, it's going to be a personal decision based on your needs and desires. Only you can weigh the costs / benefits that apply. Perhaps a better question might be "which computer should I avoid?" The kind of diving you want to do leaves the field wide open.