Petrel 2

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I was in similar position to yours just a few months ago, but at the time I wasn't on these boards and my research was mostly about functionality and reviews. I didn't find Shearwater or Petrel since it's not "mainstream recreational." I chose Mares Puck Pro for several reasons: (1) It's on the cheap side, so if I made a mistake no big deal, (2) It does air and nitrox, so it covers recreational diving, (3) Good reviews and reliability, and (4) If I decide to upgrade, it's a nice solid backup that will go with everything.

I don't regret my decision and Puck Pro is great for what I've been doing, but if I were to do it again I wouldn't hesitate to get a Petrel (I've researched them and read the manuals, both tech and rec.) It costs a bit extra, but it's marginally more than mid-tier recreational computers that go for 500-600. It has a great screen (Cobalt is 1,300) and covers everything that you'll need. In my initial computer search I didn't find anything that had this combination of screen, functionality and price. It was either air integrated (I didn't want it, unnecessary expense,) or screen was the old LCD with back light.

Finally, don't worry about "snobs." It's just human nature. Get what you like/want and enjoy.
 
If you want to get into tech diving, buy an UWATEC bottom timer and install multideco on your laptop. That'd do you more favors in developing skillset and experience. Tech diving isn't about 'flying' a fancy computer...

If you do get a Petrel, also get a copy of Deco for Divers.

Unlike most prohibitive rec computers, a Petrel will happily let you hurt yourself...
We can get into a "who is older school than who" kind of argument, but it's the gas management and planning skills that need to be learned.

In that regard, you can argue that tech diving is also clearly not about using multi-deco or a similar program on a lap top, tablet, or phone to develop your dive plan and gas plan for you - it's about actually understanding the steps, the math, the processes and where the raw data comes from in establishing the plan and the contingencies plans for delays on the bottom, lost gas and lost deco gas - for starters.

Owning using a Predator or Petrel isn't "flying a fancy computer" by any means.

It's also misleading to suggest that a Predator or Petrel will just let you to do anything you want to do. Want to actually switch to O2 at 60'? Sure, it will let you do it. Feel like skipping a deco stop? It will let you do that to. But that's only true to the extent that it won't lock you out and leave you on your own like most other computers. It will give you ample and clear warning that you're doing something stupid, but it will then also hang in there calculating the tissue compartments while you do it rather than just switching to gauge mode and leaving you high and dry.

I'll also argue that you're still wasting money on a Uwatec Bottom timer if you want to learn with bottom timer and tables, as you also have a gauge mode on the Predator and Petrel that then depth and time information with no deco information - just like a bottom timer.
 
New to diving and I am looking to get a dive computer. I want the petrel 2 just because of the tech aspect which is the main reason I started diving. (I want to dive caves). Is this over kill or what guys?

I doubt anyone on SB will advise against a petrel ever. The question is do you want it now? -- I think you can get a tech cert within a year, it is doable if you can afford all the time and effort that goes into it. Normally it'll take a couple of years at least, you could buy petrel 3 then.

If you do that, there's a rumor that Deep6 will start selling a great recreational computer for $150 Real Soon Now(tm). Otherwise LP has puck @$150 though I personally would get aeris a300 from amazon for $200 or a dg03 for $250. I'd stay away from the zoop, AFAIK it has no gauge mode and can't be used as a backup on your tech. dives. Cressi leonardo works as depth gauge to 120m, that's a better choice, but the puck has essentially the same features for $50 less.
 
I'll also argue that you're still wasting money on a Uwatec Bottom timer if you want to learn with bottom timer and tables, as you also have a gauge mode on the Predator and Petrel that then depth and time information with no deco information - just like a bottom timer.
I have dived with a couple of people who use petrels as bottom timers.
 
I'm going to jump in an add a bit more to what I said earlier. As has been stated by several knowing how to cut tables and use tables and a bottom timer are very important. I just bought my computer a couple of days ago, but I did my initial tec course without a computer all on tables and using a bottom timer, and I will continue to cut tables and carry them and a timer as backup in addition to using the Petrel 2. It is similar to flying ( I am a recreational pilot), you learn how to do all your fuel, ground speed, etc calculations using something called a wiz wheel, basically a round slide ruler. You do this in hand with the technology so that is sh!t goes south you can get yourself out of a situation. I am very new to tech, but early on my tech buddies drove into me that you need to know how to run your tables, and use them on the fly if your computer sh!ts the bed.
 
Going to mark that as FOR on the petrel 2 side. That's what I wanted to hear. When I hear petrel I hear ease of use with buttons constantly. Didn't realize some others were so hard though.

I work in IT and have been teaching scuba off and on for more than a few years. A friend of mine also works in IT and has been diving for 20+ years. He and I were on a boat in palm beach trying to figure out how to program a Hollis DG03 that he had just gotten for nitrox, but could only figure out how to get it in gauge mode.

Not all computers are intuitive. Some are pretty easy to use, some are just bizarre.

As for the petrel. If you have the money and are convinced you're getting into cave diving someday, then might as well buy once and get it. I love mine.
 
Up until i picked a Petrel this year I've been using a Suunto Gekko, predecessor of the Zoop, as a tech diving bottom timer since 2009 and for cave diving the past few years. It goes into gauge mode and still records all dive info after you lock it out. I still use it as a backup bottom timer.
 
We can get into a "who is older school than who" kind of argument, but it's the gas management and planning skills that need to be learned.

PLAN the dive, DIVE the plan.

One of the weakest critical skills that novice technical divers possess is the ability to PRECISELY follow a plan. Run-Time precision. For that reason, pre-cut tables stress the need to maintain situational awareness, plan ahead in-water and get your ascent profile exactly right.... RUN TIME matters.

Computers discourage the importance of run-time adherence... everything is recalculated on a dime, things get sloppy.

IMHO, run-time precision is one of the fundamental tech competencies. Whilst tech divers may go on to utilize computers, they should have their foundations cultivated first.

There's nothing "old school" about it. Any more than practicing accurate buoyancy is old school... or learning frog-kick, or rehearsing gas switches.

Owning using a Predator or Petrel isn't "flying a fancy computer" by any means.

So.... a recreational diver buys a Petrel. They use that Petrel to formulate a precise dive plan. Once in-water, the Petrel deviates from that plan, due to depth fluctuations etc etc. Stop times, or even depths, can differ. Allowable bottom time can differ. Which plan does the recreational diver now use? The original plan; run-time and stops? Or the current plan presented by the Petrel?

My money is on people using the current in-water directions from the computer. Bravo! They've learned that deviation from pre-dive plan is acceptable. That discipline is a dispensable factor.

Weeks, months or years later... they turn up at a technical diving course and struggle with the concept of following accurate run-times. I see this far too routinely and more frequently as the current generation of 'trained only on computers' divers reaches tech level.

It's also misleading to suggest that a Predator or Petrel will just let you to do anything you want to do. Want to actually switch to O2 at 60'? Sure, it will let you do it. Feel like skipping a deco stop? It will let you do that to. But that's only true to the extent that it won't lock you out and leave you on your own like most other computers. It will give you ample and clear warning that you're doing something stupid,....

Scubaboard is full of comments about how this or that computer is too conservative, too restrictive etc etc

How about having the flexibility to drop VPM down to conservatism zero.... as is default on most rec computers. How about GF Hi 100?

I don't assume any decompression theory knowledge... no algorithm clarity... with recreational divers... so the computer happily allows you to set conditions and parameters that decrease your safety. Recreational divers might easily assume that anything you are 'allowed' to set, must be safe. That's how other computers work right?

Shearwater themselves caveat and disclaimer against this boldly in their instruction manual. They direct towards the user educating themselves. It's the only computer instruction manual that tells users to read Baker's "Understanding M Values" article...
 
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lock outs are very rare.. As I understand the lockouts is when you miss a required stop. And that Is now leaving the rec diving arena. But yes the petrel is a tech functional computer with a rec mode so you don't have to deal with rebreathers and trimix and all the other stuff that is teck. Other features I like is that you can design the screen to some extent for what you want to see. the rec mode had 3 levels of conservatism. the tech mode has unlimited. rec mode lets you put in 3 gasses and in tech you can put 5. so my puter has air, 32 and 27. 32 for standard nitrox and the 27 for when I get a short fill and I top off with air to get full psi. The third I use for what ever fancies me. when the shop fills with air and nitrox was already in the partial tank. the gasses can be turned on and off. the planning mode is fantastic.. put in depth time and it tells you what gasses (that are turned on ) to use and when to change them. deco dives are no different in rec than in tech other than the max of 3 gasses to make available. Its menu system and simplicity is the major thing going for petrel and its family. you can watch your tissue compartments fill and empty. and the post dive data available is so easy to access and review. When it starts up is measures barametric pressure, and you can manually set in the pressure for altitude you are diving at. you can have it tell you to stop for safety stop or not. All that is on the computer its self. Then there is the software for the desktop . soft stop information is bold and clear. 30 ft 3 min. when you get there the 3 min counts down and then displays the next stop. It is bold and you can not miss it. I know deco is beyond rec but things do happen.
 
PLAN the dive, DIVE the plan.

One of the weakest critical skills that novice technical divers possess is the ability to PRECISELY follow a plan. Run-Time precision. For that reason, pre-cut tables stress the need to maintain situational awareness, plan ahead in-water and get your ascent profile exactly right.... RUN TIME matters.

Computers discourage the importance of run-time adherence... everything is recalculated on a dime, things get sloppy.

IMHO, run-time precision is one of the fundamental tech competencies. Whilst tech divers may go on to utilize computers, they should have their foundations cultivated first.

There's nothing "old school" about it. Any more than practicing accurate buoyancy is old school... or learning frog-kick, or rehearsing gas switches

So.... a recreational diver buys a Petrel. They use that Petrel to formulate a precise dive plan. Once in-water, the Petrel deviates from that plan, due to depth fluctuations etc etc. Stop times, or even depths, can differ. Allowable bottom time can differ. Which plan does the recreational diver now use? The original plan; run-time and stops? Or the current plan presented by the Petrel?

My money is on people using the current in-water directions from the computer. Bravo! They've learned that deviation from pre-dive plan is acceptable. That discipline is a dispensable factor.

Weeks, months or years later... they turn up at a technical diving course and struggle with the concept of following accurate run-times. I see this far too routinely and more frequently as the current generation of 'trained only on computers' divers reaches tech level.


Scubaboard is full of comments about how this or that computer is too conservative, too restrictive etc etc

How about having the flexibility to drop VPM down to conservatism zero.... as is default on most rec computers. How about GF Hi 100?

I don't assume any decompression theory knowledge... no algorithm clarity... with recreational divers... so the computer happily allows you to set conditions and parameters that decrease your safety. Recreational divers might easily assume that anything you are 'allowed' to set, must be safe. That's how other computers work right?

Shearwater themselves caveat and disclaimer against this boldly in their instruction manual. They direct towards the user educating themselves. It's the only computer instruction manual that tells users to read Baker's "Understanding M Values" article...
You know as well as I do that assuming the software you cut the table with and the computer are running the same algorithm, that diving a square profile plan with a computer will almost always leave the computer clearing the stops slight before your run time plan as the actual dive rounds off the square corners on the plan.

Thus, the diver dives the plan, and the computer runs in the back ground as backup. What does that teach the diver? It teaches the diver to think, and to dive the plan - and it teaches him that rigid reliance on the computer isn't always needed, but also that the computer will usually run pretty close to the dive plan, and is a reasonable backup.

In the real world however, there are times when diving the plan isn't the best option. Let's say you're only half way through your bottom time, and you discover that due to high current, you're burning more gas than planned (which is one of the key reasons to have a dive and gas plan), or lets say you're on the plan and you arrive back at the hook to find it's gone, and you have to shoot your own ascent line, or let's say you encounter another diver with an emergency and you need to get them to the surface or at least to surface support ASAP, or perhaps there is just a recall signal from the boat due to sea conditions brewing up, an injured diver, etc. That's where a computer comes into it's own. If you're at 200' and only 15 minutes into a 30 minute bottom time, it's nice to have a computer that can get you to the surface safely and in minimum time - particularly if you're dealing with some other unexpected crisis or failure. At that point the computer is a much better option than doing the full deco schedule (and probably on-gassing rather than off gassing at the deep stops), or perhaps putting a new deco schedule together with wet tables while hanging on a jon line at depth in a 3 kt current.

Or consider the reality of diving in a cave, particularly one with an unknown profile. In that environment, the gas plan is based on a minimum of thirds, with adjustments for flow, silt and line conditions, tight passages, and deco obligations. Absent a computer, you're reduced to developing a multi-level dive plan on the fly, when your focus is better spent on a variety of other items. Or, you force yourself to comply with a square deco profile, which again wastes significant time on in needed deco.

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Your point is well taken that a diver can change the default GFs in a Shearwater, but let's be honest here and point out that changing the conservatism or the GFs is an option in most dive plan software as well. In both cases, the diver needs to understand the theory behind it before they start adjusting GFs. You can also get a VPM-B unlock for the Predators which gives it the flexibility to match deco planning software using GFs or a variable permeability model.

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In short, you're making an argument that a computer causes bad divers, rather than recognizing that a computer is just a tool, and that the diver is responsible for all the planning and decision making - a philosophy that is built into Shearwater computers.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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