Peacock Fatality Accident Analysis

[MXGratefulDiver]

Those of us suggesting we need to look beyond the rule infractions are saying exactly that. We are not mimimizing the infractions but rather are just suggesting there is benefit in looking at the entire picture to ensure nothing gets missed. If you just assume the accident would not have happened had all the rules been followed, you then run the risk of missing another unrelated causative factor and in turn run a risk of learning nothing from her death.

I've noticed this effect on all the boards where this is being discussed ... the assumption that if the rules had been followed the accident wouldn't have happened. Further, I've noticed that anyone questioning that assumption has had snarky comments directed at them concerning their own diving abilities or attitude.

That does the entire conversation a disservice.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that it was OK to do what they did. But in order to have any reasonable discussion about the accident, I think one has to look past the obvious ... which in this case is the violation of three of the five basic rules of cave diving ... and question what else was going on.

Anyone who believes this woman would've been OK if only she'd run a line probably hasn't had to deal with a panicked diver. Rational thought has little to do with panic. The earlier comment that she has panicked in the past makes me wonder if jump lines in this case would've had any effect on the outcome.

I'm gonna toss this thought out there ... some people simply don't belong in a cave. One of the key requirements is the ability to keep a cool head when something goes wrong ... and someone who reacts emotionally or who turns on the jets and speeds away from the problem is probably a ticking time bomb. Even on a simple OW dive, that response ... which works well keeping humans alive in their natural environment ... will greatly increase your risks of damage or death underwater. In a cave, even more so.

Perhaps what we should really be asking ourselves is whether or not the screening process for certifying people in a cave is appropriate ... and whether her prior behavior was any indication that she might be prone to panic.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Cave Diver]

we give a index finger pointing to new exit thumb up signal (easy to show hard to describe).

You mean like a "finger gun?"

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Every time I've been to Peacock in the past 3 years the Peanut line has been right at the cavern zone. In Basic/Apprentice, I had to run the reel around goldline beyond the sign because it was too close to count for reel work in class. I think most instructors have students do this.

The sign's over 100 feet in. The line, on the other hand, starts right at the entrance to the cavern. My instructor had me run a guideline to the sign from the cavern entrance. My primary tie was to a rock that was, literally, right next to the beginning of the gold line.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rjack321]

I've noticed this effect on all the boards where this is being discussed ... the assumption that if the rules had been followed the accident wouldn't have happened. Further, I've noticed that anyone questioning that assumption has had snarky comments directed at them concerning their own diving abilities or attitude.

That does the entire conversation a disservice.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that it was OK to do what they did. But in order to have any reasonable discussion about the accident, I think one has to look past the obvious ... which in this case is the violation of three of the five basic rules of cave diving ... and question what else was going on.

Medical events are always brought up. They never have any justification just "maybes" and the rationale gets increasingly untestable.

Anyone who believes this woman would've been OK if only she'd run a line probably hasn't had to deal with a panicked diver. Rational thought has little to do with panic. The earlier comment that she has panicked in the past makes me wonder if jump lines in this case would've had any effect on the outcome.

I'm gonna toss this thought out there ... some people simply don't belong in a cave. One of the key requirements is the ability to keep a cool head when something goes wrong ... and someone who reacts emotionally or who turns on the jets and speeds away from the problem is probably a ticking time bomb. Even on a simple OW dive, that response ... which works well keeping humans alive in their natural environment ... will greatly increase your risks of damage of death underwater. In a cave, even more so.

Perhaps what we should really be asking ourselves is whether or not the screening process for certifying people in a cave is appropriate ... and whether her prior behavior was any indication that she might be prone to panic.

I'm wondering if this behavior was ever "tested" in class (ie. what her class was like and if it was difficult enough to inspire this panicky behavior), if the class was adequate was this tendency shown and/or acknowledged, or

if it developed over the ~4 yrs of increasingly aggressive cave diving she did after class.

 

[Cave Diver]

I'm gonna toss this thought out there ... some people simply don't belong in a cave.

Couldn't agree more.

One of the key requirements is the ability to keep a cool head when something goes wrong ... and someone who reacts emotionally or who turns on the jets and speeds away from the problem is probably a ticking time bomb. Even on a simple OW dive, that response ... which works well keeping humans alive in their natural environment ... will greatly increase your risks of damage of death underwater. In a cave, even more so.

Perhaps what we should really be asking ourselves is whether or not the screening process for certifying people in a cave is appropriate ... and whether her prior behavior was any indication that she might be prone to panic.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

One of the problems that you run into here is how many dives does it take before this is evident? While it seems that she has had a similar incident in the past, it also seems as if she has had many incident free dives. I think when that happens people are more likely to write something off as a fluke, rather than a predisposition to panic.

One of the things that I love about my regular dive buddy is that we can give honest critique and feedback to each other without taking it personally. If one of us has an off day or totally f's up, the other won't hesitate to call them on it and discuss and resolve before we dive again. I think this is a vital skill lacking in a lot of buddy teams.

 

[rjack321]

You mean like a "finger gun?"

yes also commonly used to communicate "swim that way to go up the anchor"

Its our committment to exit forward not back in a cave circuit.

 

[rjack321]

I think this is a vital skill lacking in a lot of buddy teams.

Agree wholeheartedly

 

[Cave Diver]

yes also commonly used to communicate "swim that way to go up the anchor"

Its our committment to exit forward not back in a cave circuit.

We use it in a similar fashion.

"We're exiting in a normal fashion and we're going in that direction."

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm wondering if this behavior was ever "tested" in class (ie. what her class was like and if it was difficult enough to inspire this panicky behavior), if the class was adequate was this tendency shown and/or acknowledged, or

That's a real good question. If she never went past Intro, then perhaps not ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DiverLaura]

I'm wondering if this behavior was ever "tested" in class (ie. what her class was like and if it was difficult enough to inspire this panicky behavior), if the class was adequate was this tendency shown and/or acknowledged, or if it developed over the ~4 yrs of increasingly aggressive cave diving she did after class.

well... the thought comes to mind that the instructor likely 'tested' her in conditions that he/she was certifying her to dive in.

Just like basic OW 1 divers. I'm not gonna test their ability to be 'solid divers' in 100' of water, in the dark, while swimming against a current with a bag full of dungeness crab whilst diving a drysuit and then see if they panic and bolt when their primary can light goes out and their buddy vanishes, because, quite honestly, i am not certifying them to do that dive in a basic class.