Peacock Fatality Accident Analysis

[rjack321]

Honestly, the position that the rules are a "red herring" is seriously dangerous complacency. I'm sorry, but if you want to have an honest discussion about this it *begins* with violation of the continuous guideline rule. If you want to prevent this, start leading by example and *stop* going into these systems without proper guidelines just because everyone else does it. Stop using excuses.

Exactly! The proximate cause of the panic was lack of personal references in the cave, jump spools, arrows etc.

 

[TSandM]

Marci and Lamont, I see both your points of view.

Lamont, I'm with you; I have never broken the guideline rule, and I never will. Like my dogged insistence on buddy checks and a dive plan, running lines is a safety thing I'm simply not willing to do without.

But Marci has a point -- at the moment when this woman panicked, she was on a main line, and furthermore, in tunnel that was apparently by no means new to her. How does this happen? How does someone become so frightened in familiar cave that she won't listen to her buddy and bolts in panic? What, if anything, can a buddy do in such a circumstance? I think these are actually good questions.

The issue about guidelines, which may well have been the reason this was a fatality instead of a "near miss", doesn't really need a lot of discussion. We're taught to run a continuous line, because it's safer. People decide not to, and sometimes they die.

 

[rjack321]

But Marci has a point -- at the moment when this woman panicked, she was on a main line, and furthermore, in tunnel that was apparently by no means new to her. How does this happen?

It happens because she had no personal references in the cave, no jumps lines, no spools with her initials, no cookies, no arrows, nada. This alone can create doubts which escalate to panic. The fact that there was a goldline in front of her was not part of the limited rationale thoughts she had before the panic got out of control. If they had set the jumps on a previous dive she would have seen them while completing the circuit and these familar objects may have avoided the panic cycle. We'll never really know, but the continuous guideline is not really meant to help an already panicked diver anyway.

And she had done 1700ft and 2 visual jumps of penetration that's a hell of alot for an intro diver - they weren't really "800ft in".

 

[nadwidny]

And she had done 1700ft and 2 visual jumps of penetration that's a hell of alot for an intro diver - they weren't really "800ft in".

Lets not get hung up on cards. A lot of this supposed discussion revolves around what card the diver carried. What I've seen so far is the the diver had an intro card but had been diving beyond that level for a few years. Anyone want to clarify this?

We'll talk about the visual jumps later.

 

[nadwidny]

Lamont, I'm with you; I have never broken the guideline rule, and I never will. Like my dogged insistence on buddy checks and a dive plan, running lines is a safety thing I'm simply not willing to do without.

When I was doing my Cave 1 with Chris we swam by the guy that gave you your pass on your Full Cave. He was doing a circuit with clients, the final part of which was done by breaking the guideline rule. It all seemed harmless to me but even at that stage of my early cave diving it was obvious he was breaking the continuous guideline rule. Immediately after we surfaced Chris told me "If I ever see you doing that I will kick your a s s ." And he was serious. And I know he will. I'm glad to see you are smarter than your Full Cave instructor.

The cave rules were written before most of those here were even OW certified. Break them and die. Sheck Exley knew this. That's why he codified them. Ignore them if you think you know more than Sheck Exley.

 

[Green_Streak]

Lets not get hung up on cards. A lot of this supposed discussion revolves around what card the diver carried. What I've seen so far is the the diver had an intro card but had been diving beyond that level for a few years. Anyone want to clarify this?

While they had been diving this site weekly for a number of years they had only recently started doing jumps/circuits(somewhere in the past 8 months or so). I also know of another dive while still p400' on the olsen line she bolted past other divers in the team, in that instance she had gotten confused about the location of one team member, and thinking she was ahead poured on the speed(leaving the diver she was looking for behind) and this was with no communication whatsoever, just suddenly passing and hauling ass off into the distance. Also both divers had intro cards.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Ok, most agree the jump reel NOT in place was the determining factor. Still some speculation over why the panic. She had done a bunch of dives there so why? Anyone familiar with the terms line follower vs cave diver? Maybe she never did a bunch of referencing therefor wasn't sure which line she was on. Easy to sit here and say why not look at the arrow and footage left to OW but if she was low enough on gas that might have caused the panic thinking she was way too far to get out the way she was going. If the jump had been there, the sink wasnt a very far swim.

 

[BabyDuck]

It happens because she had no personal references in the cave, no jumps lines, no spools with her initials, no cookies, no arrows, nada. This alone can create doubts which escalate to panic. The fact that there was a goldline in front of her was not part of the limited rationale thoughts she had before the panic got out of control. If they had set the jumps on a previous dive she would have seen them while completing the circuit and these familar objects may have avoided the panic cycle. We'll never really know, but the continuous guideline is not really meant to help an already panicked diver anyway.

And she had done 1700ft and 2 visual jumps of penetration that's a hell of alot for an intro diver - they weren't really "800ft in".

thank you. the bolded part is the only point i've been trying to make. the rules would have likely made the incident 'more survivable' or 'less serious', but that's not a given.

russell, interesting to know she'd had an instance of panic before. thanks.

kevin, they had plenty of gas from all that's been posted.

 

[LiteHedded]

Lets not get hung up on cards. A lot of this supposed discussion revolves around what card the diver carried. What I've seen so far is the the diver had an intro card but had been diving beyond that level for a few years. Anyone want to clarify this?

We'll talk about the visual jumps later.

that doesn't really bother me. I did things above my pay grade before my cave training was complete. but I never broke any of the rules. ...aside from the training bit

 

[LiteHedded]

While they had been diving this site weekly for a number of years they had only recently started doing jumps/circuits(somewhere in the past 8 months or so). I also know of another dive while still p400' on the olsen line she bolted past other divers in the team, in that instance she had gotten confused about the location of one team member, and thinking she was ahead poured on the speed(leaving the diver she was looking for behind) and this was with no communication whatsoever, just suddenly passing and hauling ass off into the distance. Also both divers had intro cards.

interesting