Passenger Bill of Rights for air travel

[Teamcasa]

There was a snow storm. High winds. Extremely cold temperatures. These conditions lasted for hours and hours.

It's not a conspiracy to keep people from getting to Aruba.

I doub't someone from JetBlue sat back and thought: "Let's see - maybe today I'll stall that plane overthere for several hours. It will cost us millions but the publicity will be worth it."

Just sit back and make the best deal you can when they come around offering refunds!

Dave

 

[pilot fish]

After performing part of preflight check, nothing to do in a very the confined cockpit space for 11 hours. This pilot, and co pilot, are frustrated, tired, anoyed and not fresh, as Howard pointed out to you.

Would you have been more comfortable with the pilot waiting 7 hours in a lounge? A bar? A hotel room? A car? What makes the cockpit so inherently a dangerous place to wait?

Tin-foil hat aside, why do you automatically assume that they are hiding facts?

There was a snow storm. High winds. Extremely cold temperatures. These conditions lasted for hours and hours.

It's not a conspiracy to keep people from getting to Aruba.

 

[OHGoDive]

There are two significant differences between sitting in an airplane for a 7+ hour flight and a 7+ hour delay on the runway.

1) If I have booked a trans oceanic flight I expect a long flight, if I booked Boston to Miami I expect my flight to be less than four hours. A delay that is 200% of the expected flight time is ludicrous.

2) The climate control systems on aircraft are designed to keep the passengers comfortable (allegedly) in flight. They do not work well (or are not supposed to be turned on) on the ground. Delays in hot weather get ridiculously hot. Delays in winter can be uncomfortably chilly.

Of course, you're right. Don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing the delay. The airline screwed up, they owe the passengers apologies and compensation. So far, that's exactly what they've done.

What I'm objecting to is the use of the words like detention, and unlawful imprisonment, etc. And the idea that a pilot who has to wait somewhere through a flight delay is any more or less tired/unsafe due to waiting in the cockpit than somewhere else (say, like the cockpit in the air, or a stuffy airport lounge). Oh, and I also object to the idea that we need Congress to step in and try and legislate incidents like this away.

I think that covers what I'm objecting to in this thread. (Maybe I should move to whine & cheeze)

 

[OHGoDive]

After performing part of preflight check, nothing to do in a very the confined cockpit space for 11 hours. This pilot, and co pilot, are frustrated, tired, anoyed and not fresh, as Howard pointed out to you.

And as I've tried to point out to you, there is nothing to indicate that this crew went wheels up any time soon after that 11 hours. (In fact, if there are any commercial pilots here, can you answer this? If you're in the cockpit waiting on the ground, does that count toward your "shift time"? That is, if you sit in the cockpit for 11 hours, do the rules that limit the number of hours you can be on the job apply the same as if you'd been in the air?)

Nor is there anything to indicate that they'd be any less frustrated had they been sitting inside the airport for all that time.

 

[pilot fish]

The offer of a free flight from JETBLUE is not adequate or reasonbale compensation for 7 or 11 hours stuck on a plane. That is unacceptable to normal people. MY time, and yours, are worth more than a puny free flight.

Of course, you're right. Don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing the delay. The airline screwed up, they owe the passengers apologies and compensation. So far, that's exactly what they've done.

What I'm objecting to is the use of the words like detention, and unlawful imprisonment, etc. And the idea that a pilot who has to wait somewhere through a flight delay is any more or less tired/unsafe due to waiting in the cockpit than somewhere else (say, like the cockpit in the air, or a stuffy airport lounge). Oh, and I also object to the idea that we need Congress to step in and try and legislate incidents like this away.

I think that covers what I'm objecting to in this thread. (Maybe I should move to whine & cheeze)

 

[pilot fish]

And as I've tried to point out to you, there is nothing to indicate that this crew went wheels up any time soon after that 11 hours.

and they should NOT have, which proves my point

Nor is there anything to indicate that they'd be any less frustrated had they been sitting inside the airport for all that time.

A free open space, with use of bathroom, a lounge chair to nap in, freedom of motion? You can't see teh difference?

 

[OHGoDive]

The offer of a free flight from JETBLUE is not adequate or reasonbale compensation for 7 or 11 hours stuck on a plane. That is unacceptable to normal people. MY time, and yours, are worth more than a puny free flight.

And you know that this was the total compensation offered to the affected passengers.... how?





Actually, my time, when responding to these types of threads, is probably worth significantly less than a puny free flight.

 

[OHGoDive]

and they should NOT have, which proves my point

Your point was that they were unsafe. They're only unsafe (to the passengers) if they're actually flying. Which they weren't. Ergo, they weren't unsafe. Doesn't prove your point at all.

A free open space, with use of bathroom, a lounge chair to nap in, freedom of motion? You can't see teh difference?

Yes, I can see the difference. But, how does that comfort add up to less frustration? I'd think that a pilot would want to fly. Restricting that due to weather would be frustrating, regardless of how comfortable you made them. We were talking frustration levels (and fatigue and safety). You changed to comfort.

 

[pilot fish]

Chairman of JetBlue's statement last night on the news and reconfirmation this morning on CNN news. Is that reliable enough for you?

Do you think that is adequate and reasonable compensation for that degree of discomfort? What about your hotel bill at the resort you never showed at, meals paid for etc?:shakehead

And you know that this was the total compensation offered to the affected passengers.... how?

 

[tedtim]

After performing part of preflight check, nothing to do in a very the confined cockpit space for 11 hours. This pilot, and co pilot, are frustrated, tired, anoyed and not fresh, as Howard pointed out to you.

There are a few other factors that enter into this discussion specifically regarding the entire crew.

Firstly, the pilots and flight attendants have a limitation on crew day. This is partly by the company, but also by the regulatory bodies (FAA, Transport Canada). This limitation on crew day addresses the aspect of fatigue. Airlines do not have complete crews available on a moment's notice to take another crew's place.

Similarly, there is a requirement for a minimum amount of rest for the crew between duty days. This is a safety factor.

The second part is that the crew is probably not just flying on one leg. Often the crew will arrive at one location only to have a short turn around and return. They may also be used on a different flight when the arrive at their first destination. Thus, the whole network of scheduling the crew is affected.

The passengers only see the impact of the delay on themselves. They should be p****d off if the delay becomes excessive. We had a flight delay last year that could have been avoided had the aircraft been prepared a bit earlier. What we did not see is that the crew on this flight may have arrived late the evening before because the weather was bad, thus causing a requirement for them to report a bit later the next morning. Just think of the compounding factor if they have to sit on the ramp in the aircraft for an extended period of time.

It may also be that the weather at the departure airport seems to be OK for departure, but that the backlog of traffic caused by the weather will result in holding in the air either enroute or at destination. More fuel burned in the air = higher cost.

The airlines are in the business of providing transportation to the passengers. Those that keep this in the forefront can offer an explanation for weather delays, but they may not be able to do anything to change the situation. The good ones recognize this and take the steps to miminize the impact.

I don't think that a passenger bill of rights will do much other than cause ticket prices to rise. There will be a cost and we will have to accept that cost.