Panic!!!

[happy-diver]

great tell it how it is draught for the next "Lets go diving!" promo, "Coming to a school near you!"

 

[Mantaray95616]

class is short

Thats the problem; today's courses are too short and designed to bring in as much money as possiblle through upgrades.

I agree that the unexpected can happen, but a flooded or leaky mask can be expected especially in group diving where participants are in close formation.

 

[boulderjohn]

Thats the problem; today's courses are too short and designed to bring in as much money as possiblle through upgrades.

How are today's courses any shorter than the courses, say, 30 years ago?

 

[Goonzodiver]

Hello Goonzodiver

What do you think?
Is a thread "Old school vs. modern easy diving interesting?

Greetings Rainer

I honestly don't know how many might be interested, I think it would be useful to acquire the skill to dive alone or even do a simple dive without a BCD (and with less weight on). As far as I'm concerned, scuba diving should also include these aspects, and I will continue to practice, even if it is not written in the manual of modern diver.

 

[boulderjohn]

Marcante said: "if your scuba apparatus breaks at twenty meters of depth, only your ability as a freediver can save you".

I have no idea why that would be true.

If my scuba apparatus were to break down at 20 meters, and I had no other options, I would do a CESA. I would do so expecting to have no trouble reaching the surface. Free diving training has nothing to do with a CESA.

 

[Goonzodiver]

I have no idea why that would be true.

If my scuba apparatus were to break down at 20 meters, and I had no other options, I would do a CESA. I would do so expecting to have no trouble reaching the surface. Free diving training has nothing to do with a CESA.

if you are alone, CESA with no air from 20m (and if there were thirty?) ? breathing what? Are you capable to hold your breath for one minute or more? Are you sure you are able to exhale for a minute and a half continuously?
I don't know of any modern courses where they take you to 20 meters and make you come back up while making you exhale continuously.

However, Marcante was saying that when you descend, you have to descend to a depth that you are capable of managing the worst case with your own strength. This is the connection between scuba and freediving that you are missing.

 

[Mantaray95616]

How are today's courses any shorter than the courses, say, 30 years ago?

That's a difficult question.

Going back to the 50's there were no courses as such. There were a set of skills to be mastered and were taught by volunteer Training Officers who were selected by the diving club based on knowledge and experience. It was a matter of learning at your own pace with the assistance of a training officer. When the member felt they had mastered a required skill they would request a Training Officer to pass them and if sucessful would train for the next step.

In the 60's, as a not-for-profit instructor, I developed a program for Brock Univerity, Ontario Canada which ran for a full semester. 15 weeks of lectures and pool training before open water check-out. Working on the assumtion that most graduate students would ignore the buddy system, the course was designed to ensure that the individual was totally comfortable in the underwater world and fully trusted the equipment and knew how to use it. One of the excercises was locating your equipment by feel (blacked-out mask) and putting it on in the deep end of the swimming pool.

In the 70's, in the Bahamas, because of work permit restrictions, I could only assist a local instructor and I only assisted in advanced diving courses. I couln't come to grips with resort diving beginner courses as they did not meet my standards.

I know I haven't answered your question. I had to retire from instructing as my post-Bahamas workload made it impossible.

I would like to get back on topic. "Panic"

Do would-be divers ever get a failing grade these days?

Out of more than a few, I have two worth mentioning. One was the aquatics director for the local YMCA and the other an examiner for the Roayal Life Saving Society. Both were proficient swimmers but they were totally uncomfortable as soon as they submerged. It seemed to be mainly a mistrust of the equipment and the fact that there was a few feet of water over their heads. Looking into their eyes through their masks Icould see sheer panic. After discussing the situation with them and the fact that certification was out of reach they withdrew from the course.

If you are comfortable in the water and know your equipent and hopefully diving with a competent buddy you should be able to relax after a few dives and ignore little mishaps. They ARE going happen so get used to them.

Yes there is a time to panick but not over routine mishaps. Panick comes when you run out of alternatives and have no other means of assistance.

This will probably shock anybody who had not experienced "life before restrictions".

Shortly before I left the Bahamas, I was invited to accompany a group of divers on a deep dive (200ft) that had been planned for months.They had increaced the depth of there dives over a period of time building up a tolerance for narcosis. there would be 5 minute bottom time and two decompression stops before resurfacing. There was a designated time-keeper and a designated depth monitor who only had to concentrate on one thng to mitigate the effects of nitrogen narcosis. Yes this dive was on pure air)

What could go wrong? It was perfectly planned.

The answer was a last minute change in buddies (UK with a North Amercan buddy). and a lack of pre-dive review of basic signals between the new buuddies.

At 200ft for whatever reason the one diver signalled that he was out of air and dropped his mouthpece in anticipatio of receiving a breath from his buddy (no octopus rigs at that time). The buddy gave him a couple of breaths of air and pressed the others purge valve and on seeing air bubbling out (slight change of depth and ambient pressure assumed that the other had simply dropped his mouthpiece, gave him his mouthpiece and swam off to the ascent line as bottom time reached 5 minutes,

No wonder the one diver panicked. He couldn't get to where extra tanks were tied off and had run out of options. He had to make a free ascent fom about 180ft and bypass the decompression stops. Fortunately there was a recompression centre on our way back to the marina and not too far away. He was lucky, he nly suffered a small lesion on one lung but as far as I know he never dived again although I gave him all of my equipment when I left the Bahamas a number of weeks later.

So ends my Story for today.

 

[Mantaray95616]

I have no idea why that would be true.

If my scuba apparatus were to break down at 20 meters, and I had no other options, I would do a CESA. I would do so expecting to have no trouble reaching the surface. Free diving training has nothing to do with a CESA.

Freediving techniques would kill you. On a free ascent you have to breath out continuously to avoid an embolism. Freedivers by definition are breathholders

 

[Goonzodiver]

Freediving techniques would kill you. On a free ascent you have to breath out continuously to avoid an embolism. Freedivers by definition are breathholders

We are talking about the ability to manage one's breathing.
It is clear that if a diver has compressed air in his lungs, he has to expel it during ascent.
Only a fool or an ignoramus would retain compressed air in his lungs during ascent.
A diver in the 50s certainly had better training in managing breathing than modern divers. Without a doubt.

PS:
Freedivers by definition are divers who do not use breathing apparatus. . This does not mean that they "hold their breath", all the time.

 

[boulderjohn]

That's a difficult question.

Going back to the 50's there were no courses as such. There were a set of skills to be mastered and were taught by volunteer Training Officers who were selected by the diving club based on knowledge and experience. It was a matter of learning at your own pace with the assistance of a training officer. When the member felt they had mastered a required skill they would request a Training Officer to pass them and if sucessful would train for the next step.

In the 60's, as a not-for-profit instructor, I developed a program for Brock Univerity, Ontario Canada which ran for a full semester. 15 weeks of lectures and pool training before open water check-out. Working on the assumtion that most graduate students would ignore the buddy system, the course was designed to ensure that the individual was totally comfortable in the underwater world and fully trusted the equipment and knew how to use it. One of the excercises was locating your equipment by feel (blacked-out mask) and putting it on in the deep end of the swimming pool.

In the 70's, in the Bahamas, because of work permit restrictions, I could only assist a local instructor and I only assisted in advanced diving courses. I couln't come to grips with resort diving beginner courses as they did not meet my standards.

I know I haven't answered your question. I had to retire from instructing as my post-Bahamas workload made it impossible.

I would like to get back on topic. "Panic"

Do would-be divers ever get a failing grade these days?

Out of more than a few, I have two worth mentioning. One was the aquatics director for the local YMCA and the other an examiner for the Roayal Life Saving Society. Both were proficient swimmers but they were totally uncomfortable as soon as they submerged. It seemed to be mainly a mistrust of the equipment and the fact that there was a few feet of water over their heads. Looking into their eyes through their masks Icould see sheer panic. After discussing the situation with them and the fact that certification was out of reach they withdrew from the course.

If you are comfortable in the water and know your equipent and hopefully diving with a competent buddy you should be able to relax after a few dives and ignore little mishaps. They ARE going happen so get used to them.

Yes there is a time to panick but not over routine mishaps. Panick comes when you run out of alternatives and have no other means of assistance.

This will probably shock anybody who had not experienced "life before restrictions".

Shortly before I left the Bahamas, I was invited to accompany a group of divers on a deep dive (200ft) that had been planned for months.They had increaced the depth of there dives over a period of time building up a tolerance for narcosis. there would be 5 minute bottom time and two decompression stops before resurfacing. There was a designated time-keeper and a designated depth monitor who only had to concentrate on one thng to mitigate the effects of nitrogen narcosis. Yes this dive was on pure air)

What could go wrong? It was perfectly planned.

The answer was a last minute change in buddies (UK with a North Amercan buddy). and a lack of pre-dive review of basic signals between the new buuddies.

At 200ft for whatever reason the one diver signalled that he was out of air and dropped his mouthpece in anticipatio of receiving a breath from his buddy (no octopus rigs at that time). The buddy gave him a couple of breaths of air and pressed the others purge valve and on seeing air bubbling out (slight change of depth and ambient pressure assumed that the other had simply dropped his mouthpiece, gave him his mouthpiece and swam off to the ascent line as bottom time reached 5 minutes,

No wonder the one diver panicked. He couldn't get to where extra tanks were tied off and had run out of options. He had to make a free ascent ffom about 180ft and bypass the decompression stops. Fortunately there was a recompression centre on our way back to the marina and not too far away. He was lucky, he nly suffered a small lesion on one lung but as far as I know he never dived again although I gave him all of my equipment when I left the Bahamas a number of weeks later.

So ends my Story for today.

So you have no experience with the way scuba was taught in the system that started with Scripps Institute in the early 1950s, then by Los Angeles in the later 1950s, then by NAUI (which came from the Los Angeles program) and is pretty much the way scuba was taught throughout most of the world from then on. You have no experience with the changes in instructional practice moving from lectures to home study to online learning.

A review of course requirements for the last half century or so show that they only skill taught by most agencies back then that is no longer taught is one regulator buddy breathing, which you describe in your incident. A study by former NAUI President, Berkely professor Glen Egstrom, indicated that for a buddy team to be confident in performing a successful one-regulator buddy breathing exercise in real life, they would need an average of 17 successful practice sessions, and that buddy team would have to practice it together regularly to maintain the skill.