Panama City Charters

[Keysdrifter454]

Unmitigated BS..
I'm sure you had your tongue firmly implanted in your cheek when you wrote that (which is the only reason I left it there), but it is so far off the wall as to warrant a comment.
While no dive operation is perfect, Hydrospace is a good one, with an excellent safety record. If you have some specific gripe about their operation, or some horror story (that you can back up, of course) feel free to post it. Broad-brush slams against dive operations without verifiable evidence to support 'em are inappropriate.
Rick

Sure.

Hydrospace instructs you to board the boat without analyzing your tank mixture.

There is no single greater violation of dive safety protocall.

Rick Murchison, do you advocate divers diving tanks they have not personally analyzed?

Do you do it?

Yes or no?

I have corraboration, but I'm sure you know this to be true.


Corroboration PM'd at to you this time, stating that the practice is current and standard, because Hydrospace is "too busy" to check individual tanks.

 

[inter_alia]

I daresay any dive op is "good folks" when you have a long relationship with them and, further, always have input into the locations at which you get to dive... even on the biggest of boats with the largest of crowds.

My experience with Hydrospace (as a paying passenger, maybe ten trips in varying conditions) has been fine. Nothing to blame on the staff or captains or deckhands. But I have come to expect helping with tanks and changing out my own gear. It ain't the Caribbean on the panhandle but it isn't priced as such, either.

 

[Keysdrifter454]

I daresay any dive op is "good folks" when you have a long relationship with them

Hear, Hear!

and, further, always have input into the locations at which you get to dive... even on the biggest of boats with the largest of crowds.

My experience with Hydrospace (as a paying passenger, maybe ten trips in varying conditions) has been fine. Nothing to blame on the staff or captains or deckhands. But I have come to expect helping with tanks and changing out my own gear. It ain't the Caribbean on the panhandle but it isn't priced as such, either.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Sure.
Hydrospace instructs you to board the boat without analyzing your tank mixture.

Why do you not analyse your own tanks? We certainly do. I'm having a hard time understanding your gripe here - as a Nitrox diver you are responsible for analysing your own tanks, or witnessing the analysis. I've been diving with Hydrospace for a decade and have never seen *them* instruct anyone to board without analysing their tanks. Did they strap the unanalysed tank to your back and throw you in and haul you to the bottom? Who's the boss?

There is no single greater violation of dive safety protocall.

That's a little strong... even if you let yourself be bamboozled into diving unanalysed tanks, if you're talking about Hydrospace filled tanks, the limit of their system is 40%, and they bank 32%; my experience is that their fills are always in the 31%-33% range. But even at 40% if you're diving the usual Panama City sites you're not in any grave danger with that mix. I can think of a whole lot more dangerous violations of dive safety protocol, and it's a very long way indeed from "= death."

Rick Murchison, do you advocate divers diving tanks they have not personally analyzed? Do you do it?

No.
No.

I have corraboration, but I'm sure you know this to be true.

No, I've never seen that done at Hydrospace.

I would say this, though. If Hydrospace, or anyone else for that matter, denied me the ability to analyse a tank I wouldn't dive it and I wouldn't pay for it - In Hydrospace's case I'd insist on air and I'd pay for air, and I'd have a little nose-to-nose with Scotty when we got back in.

Corroboration PM'd at to you this time, stating that the practice is current and standard, because Hydrospace is "too busy" to check individual tanks.

You misunderstand what the "corraborator" is saying - he is saying that they *do* analyse each tank, as they're filling them (which I don't think is the best way to do things, but it isn't a case of not checking each tank)
But... the bottom line is that the Nitrox diver - not the dive operation - is ultimately responsible for his/her own safety. The rush to get tanks filled and a boat underway on time (any boat, not just Hydrospace) can tempt folks to take shortcuts all over the place - Nitrox analysis being one of 'em - but that's no excuse for the Nitrox diver to take similar shortcuts with his/her own gas.
Personally, I plan to have plenty of time to analyse cylinders; I just don't have the problem (but then I fill and analyse and dive my own tanks). There is *always* time to analyse them between the dock and the dive site with your very own analyser. If you're diving Nitrox regularly and you want to avoid any possibility of the dive shop messing up your ability to analyse - their analyser breaks, for example - I highly recommend you invest in one.
Your concerns with Hydrospace are overblown.
Rick

 

[The Kraken]

A buddy of mine and I have dived with Hydro numerous times and have had only good experiences with them.
While we've never been told, "Now, Nitrox divers, you need to analyze your Nitrox now!", we have never received an inference, or have been told that there was no need to analyze our mix.
It is a given that one analyzes one's mix. There is always plenty of time to do so before the dive. One can always revert to "EAN21".

 

[Keysdrifter454]

Why do you not analyse your own tanks? We certainly do. I'm having a hard time understanding your gripe here - as a Nitrox diver you are responsible for analysing your own tanks, or witnessing the analysis. I've been diving with Hydrospace for a decade and have never seen *them* instruct anyone to board without analysing their tanks. Did they strap the unanalysed tank to your back and throw you in and haul you to the bottom? Who's the boss?

No, when I was there, the tanks were already on the boat. Divers asked about analyzation, and were told it wasn't necessary. No analyzer owned by the shop was available, or offered at any rate.

That's a little strong... even if you let yourself be bamboozled into diving unanalysed tanks, if you're talking about Hydrospace filled tanks, the limit of their system is 40%, and they bank 32%; my experience is that their fills are always in the 31%-33% range. But even at 40% if you're diving the usual Panama City sites you're not in any grave danger with that mix. I can think of a whole lot more dangerous violations of dive safety protocol, and it's a very long way indeed from "= death."

So what you're saying here specifically is, there's no need to analyze your tanks, because, in the scenarios you find plausible, there's no "grave danger".

How peculiar.

No.
No.

Good, good.

But does it jive with the rest of your post?

No, I've never seen that done at Hydrospace.

I would say this, though. If Hydrospace, or anyone else for that matter, denied me the ability to analyse a tank I wouldn't dive it and I wouldn't pay for it - In Hydrospace's case I'd insist on air and I'd pay for air, and I'd have a little nose-to-nose with Scotty when we got back in.

If Scotty is the tall guy with the chin whiskers that used to park his Harley in the back (before they moved), he's the dude. It was also parroted repeatedly in front of me by the tank jockey.

You misunderstand what the "corraborator" is saying - he is saying that they *do* analyse each tank, as they're filling them (which I don't think is the best way to do things, but it isn't a case of not checking each tank)

What the corraborator states, and you yet again confirm, is that the gas is checked in the blending/filling station, and not in the tank.

It is, directly contrary to what you write above, not checking each tank.

Talk about Unmitigated BS, there's a prime example.

Just out of curiosity, what happens when they put a full tank of 21% on the whips?

What's the analyzer on the bank going to read while that tank leans out the rest?

32%, baby, russian roulette.

Be pretty sad to do your second dive of the day, 45m@90fsw on 23% instead of 32%, and that's what can happen.

Among other things.

It's clearly a case of not checking eack tank, and a grand assumption of what's -already- in the tank. The bottom line is, each tank is not individually checked, and you guys are really tapdancing around unacceptable (at least to me) behaviour. And if you want to dive with them because you're buds, have at it.

Not me, and I stand by my statement.

They do not check their mix, and discourage you from checking it.

Case closed.

But... the bottom line is that the Nitrox diver - not the dive operation - is ultimately responsible for his/her own safety. The rush to get tanks filled and a boat underway on time (any boat, not just Hydrospace) can tempt folks to take shortcuts all over the place - Nitrox analysis being one of 'em - but that's no excuse for the Nitrox diver to take similar shortcuts with his/her own gas.

Not all divers have 1000 plus dives. When the op and the divemaster tell them what to do, they tend to trust the professional. FWIW, several divers while I was there refused the assumtion, and produced their own analyzer. But many got right on the boat.

As I was leaving.

There's absolutely no excuse for Hydrospaces' actions, no matter how many you try and create.

I highly recommend you invest in one.

Being an IANTD certified Nitrox blender, and Trimix blender, I have several of my own, with a helium/O2 analyzer on the way. I've also worked at one of the arguably most busy dive shops in the country, and pumped tens of thousands of cubic feet of Nitrox. I also blend all gasses for my (current) LDS's customers, even though I'm not an employee.

I'm simply trusted.

But thanks for the advice, I did feel it was sincere.

Your concerns with Hydrospace are overblown.
Rick

We've both clearly stated our cases, that's for sure.