PADI vs SSA for College Credit – Rusty Berry's Response

[muddiver]

Rusty is full of it...PADI is ACE accredited.Contact PADI and get your transcript for the credit.
All of PADI courses are ACE accredtited. OW is 1 credit in Phys Ed..Advance is 1 credit also ..Rescue/DM/IDC are all counted as well.

Claremont Mckenna College is a private school. They will just tell you to go pound sand with your fancy ACE accredidation.

Its up to the college to accept these credits. Rusty is trying to pull a stunt having you take his SSI course. Many OW courses taught at colleges are overdone to fill in time.The instructor may add in some snorkel time and longer swim times. All deliver the same end result of a certificatipon card. Can a student diver gain more abilities in a college run course?? Yes and No..I find many of these kids in college take the course for an easy credit and never dive again. Some one who completes a standard course ran by a LDS or independent instr. does it because they want to dive.They usually are more likely to stick to it and thus gain experience to become good skilled divers. If a LDS ran their courses as some college ones are the cost would be prohibitive as it would take 2 to 3 times more hours to complete.
Skill requirements are all the same in the end for certification,no difference at all in PADI system.

Some colleges actually set standards for contracted educational programs and check the program for content, classroom hours and safety requirements. Don't expect every school to accept your (PADI) transcripts or credits if the instructor and LDS program have not been reviewed by that college.

It is also possable that a college might except the PADI course as partial credit for a college course that requires a lot more hours of instruction. Either way your taking the class again.

 

[Thalassamania]

I hate to come down on Rusty Berry's side here, but I think he is in the right.

As far as the ACE is concerned, you need to understand what is actually going on. ACE is a very large organization, one small corner of which attempts to equate programs that are traditionally run outside of an academic setting with what goes on inside an academic setting. Typical programs include things like Microsoft Certification classes taught through the military, project management courses run by the CIA and examinations conducted by the Professional Aviation Maintenance Association. PADI lobbied hard to get it’s courses setup in that mode, something that many groups have done. But keep in mind that ACE only makes a “recommendation.” In point of fact, with respect to PADI, this is exactly what PADI really says:

The American Council of Education (ACE) recommends college credit for certain PADI scuba diver and Emergency First Response (EFR) courses. The ACE credit recommendations for PADI and EFR courses may help you in receiving college credit at an America university or college - even if the courses aren't conducted on a university or college campus.
​

Note the use of the word "may," more on that later. Let’s look at the PADI Open Water Diver for a moment. Here’s the write up from the ACE website:

Open Water Diver

ACE Transcript Data: PADI-0007

Organization: PADI International, Inc.

Location: Various locations throughout the United States and internationally, including PADI Affiliated Dive Centers and Resorts.

Length: 30 hours (flexible modular schedule).

Dates: January 1978 – Present

Description: 30 HRS (FLEXIBLE MODULAR SCHEDULE) STUDENT WILL ENGAGE IN BEGINNING RECREATIONAL SCUBA DIVING ACTIVITIES IN LOCAL AQUATIC ENVIRONMENTS W/OUT DIRECT/INDIRECT SUPERVISION BY CERTIFIED DIVING INSTRUCTOR.

Objective: To provide students with the necessary entry-level knowledge and skills to scuba dive. Learning Outcome: Upon successful completion of this course, the student will be able to engage in beginning recreational scuba diving activities in local aquatic environments without direct or indirect supervision by a certified diving instructor. Instruction: Major topics covered in the course are adapting to the underwater world, underwater communications, dive planning; diving equipment; boat diving; health for diving; dive tables; marine life identification; the underwater environment; and skill development in a confined water (e.g. ocean, lake, spring, quarry). Methods of instruction include lectures with audio/visual materials, demonstrations, discussions, and evaluation through written unit quizzes and final examination.

Credit Recommendation: In the lower division baccalaureate/associate degree category, 1 semester hour in Physical Education or Recreation (3/87) (9/00) (9/04).
​

Does today’s PADI course even meet this description? Is it 30 hours long? Is the method of instruction, “lectures with audio/visual materials, demonstrations, discussions, and evaluation through written unit quizzes and final examination?” Help me out, that description seems to me to require 1/3 more course than is run today, was well as actual lectures.

Anyway, over the years I had maybe a dozen students, who where PADI certified divers, request credit for their PADI training. Here are three examples:

I don't know what this has to do with pricing, most students who took our course took it on "overload," so the credits didn't acually cost them anything. The ACE thing is a complete crock. I had a student demand to get credit for my course because they had a PADI certification. I said no, and she hauled out the ACE and PADI documents. I still said no and she all that crap to the Academic Senate. I agreed to let her take the written final and pool skill exam, she flunked both. That was the end of the story, but it cost me way more time than it was worth.

I remember getting something in the campus mail from the Dean of Arts and Sciences that a student wanted to get credit for my class because he had a PADI card included was a letter from PADI that said that the American Council of Education recommends 1 PE credit for his Open Water certification and included a piece of paper that PADI ginned up to look like a college transcript. It was amazing. Anyway, I got this and sent a note back that I did not teach a PE course, but rather an engineering course, that my course was upper division not lower division and that my course was 4 credits not 1. But I offered to permit him to challenge the course: take a swim test, free diving test, scuba test and final written exam. Would it supprise you to hear that he could not swim 400 meters? And he had the nerve to complain that you didn't need to swim to be able to dive. How many of you can remember when a 440yd swim was a course entry requirement, per standards? Then it was moved to, "can complete by the end of the course," then reduced to 220, etc. reductum ad absurdum.

... A student, who was a PADI Instructor, wanted credit for PADI Open Water, PADI Advanced, and a couple of specialty courses. His request was based on the fact that all the course included material that we included in our class and they all added up to a bit more than 100 hours. He also wanted credit for PADI Assistant Instructor and PADI Instructor based on the AI and Instructor courses that we ran. If you want to read the details of the PADI courses on the ACE website, here a link.

He was looking for something like seven credits. I gave him the now standard deal, he did pass the swim test, but did very poorly on the final exam. He was not able to complete the confined water tests. He had the balls to complain to my Administration that that his prior training had not prepared him for either the written or pool exam, that he could not imagine anyone but a SEAL (his words not mine) could pass either, and so (ipso facto) I had to have been rougher on him than I was on "normal" students who took the course(s).

I was fortunate that the President’s wife had taken the 100 hr course a year before (she was a hot ticket, not the sort of thing I’d recommend for most people in their last 60s). She made it quite clear that I had asked this student to do anything that she had not been asked to do.

But he wouldn’t go away, he still wanted to know about the AI and Instructor credits. I told him that that was out of the question since the written exam that he flunked was the NAUI Master Diver Exam (conceptually the NAUI Instructor Exam without the teaching and NAUI sections). Even that did not end it, but he finally sort of just petered out and went away.

...

Keep in mind that PADI undertook this initiative (obtaining ACE recommendations) in order to open up college pools and facilities to individuals who would otherwise never be approved as college instructors or adjunct faculty, it was not done in a vacuum, or as a service to PADI divers.

 

[merxlin]

Course work not withstanding- I would do some research into the Montclair SSA classes and see if you think it would have been for you, both in substance and cost. In this instance, I believe there may be more than just the agency to consider.

 

[Scot M]

Does today’s PADI course even meet this description? Is it 30 hours long? Is the method of instruction, “lectures with audio/visual materials, demonstrations, discussions, and evaluation through written unit quizzes and final examination?” Help me out, that description seems to me to require 1/3 more course than is run today, was well as actual lectures.

My classes are pretty typical in format, scope, and length for the chain where I teach. They include a 3 hour orientation session, three 3 hour classroom sessions, and three 3 hour pool sessions. That's 21 hours. Then we have 4 open water dives and a skin dive, during which we spend around 4 hours in the water (some on the surface). Add to that the time spent planning and logging dives, assessing conditions, talking diving on the all-day boat trip, and you've got something in the vicinity of 30 hours of contact. I certainly do lecture, demonstrate, discuss, use audio/visual aids, and evaluate through unit quizzes and a final exam.

I honestly believe that today's PADI course, as generally taught in my area, meets the description.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

What extra skills above and beyond standards do you add and test on? The college courses around here that I have looked into are 32-40 hours in addition to OW checkouts. They also include the skills I previously cited.

 

[aquaregia]

My college's NAUI OW requires 22hrs lecture, 24hrs pool, two skin dive-days and four SCUBA dives. Now, my college neither gives nor requires PE credits, but we do not allow someone to dive with our SCUBA club unless they've taken a class from the college. This was apparently precipitated by people with certifications not having the skills that people certified through the school are taught (most obviously, rescues at the OW level). In some cases this has somewhat silly results (my girlfriend, a PADI instructor, almost ended up retaking AOW in order to go on a day-trip), and this does breed a certain amount of resentment and accusations of profiteering.

I would think that a reasonable solution would be to challenge the written exam and do a checkout dive or two, however given that the interested party has a financial interest in your performance I'm not sure that's likely to give you the results you want, even if your training is equivalent.

 

[Thalassamania]

I do not understand your last paragraph, but then perhaps I do not understand the organizational structure you are describing.

 

[pfulks]

I got two credits, one for OW and one for Advanced by petitioning my school. I took both courses when in high school and when I went to school, I asked PADI for a transcript. They sent it and the school consented. I went to Cal Lutheran, its in CMC's division 3 league, don't know if that matters. But also, when dealing with private schools, they are very arbitrary when applying credits.

 

[aquaregia]

I do not understand your last paragraph, but then perhaps I do not understand the organizational structure you are describing.

Actually I think the organizational structure of my post was lacking. I'm posting from work and had to get up several times while writing. My apologies.

1. My college's open water class is ~46hrs + skin dives + checkouts.

2. My college does not accept outside certifications in the same manner as it does its own.

3. I sympathize with the OP and hope that a solution similar to what Thal has offered petitioners at his institution is possible.

 

[Thalassamania]

You're at UCSC? Is there both a PE class and a Science Class? Is the PE class taught by UC personnel, Aquasports, or other?