PADI Specialty and Master Diver requirements

[nimoh]

I am not going to try to defend my position completely, because as you said Andy, it is based on my experience and I agree that I shouldn't be generalizing about all PADI specialty courses, or more specifically, instructors.

I did preface it with "in my opinion..." which I thought, adequately expressed that my view was based on my experience...I guess not.

I did not say that PADI specialties are worthless, I have taken 5 of them, and there is value in each of them, I just found them a little overpriced for what I got out of them.

 

[boulderjohn]

I did not say that PADI specialties are worthless, I have taken 5 of them, and there is value in each of them, I just found them a little overpriced for what I got out of them.

The two dive shops that are the birthplace of GUE fundamentals, which you feel is a good deal, also teach PADI OW courses and specialties. You can go to their desk and sign up for GUE fundamentals and various PADI specialties at the same time. Think that one through. Do you think they have different shop instructional policies for each?

 

[nimoh]

The two dive shops that are the birthplace of GUE fundamentals, which you feel is a good deal, also teach PADI OW courses and specialties. You can go to their desk and sign up for GUE fundamentals and various PADI specialties at the same time. Think that one through. Do you think they have different shop instructional policies for each?

I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[DevonDiver]

I don't see anything wrong with that.

The point being, I believe, that the "course" is neither good nor bad. The instructor is everything.

You could take the GUE Fundies syllabus and have it run by a bad instructor... it'd be a terrible course. You could take a PADI PPB course hand have it run by a good instructor... it'd be a fantastic course.

On paper alone, the Fundies course isn't spectacular... it's 'just' basic scuba skills. No reason the same value couldn't (shouldn't?) be achieved on an OW course really...

What makes Fundies good is the high standard of instructor - along with the clear goals that those instructors work towards (making better divers). Recommending Fundies isn't so much about the skill content involved... it is about ensuring that a diver receives expert, motivated tuition.

It's important to understand that GUE/Fundies isn't exclusive in providing expert, motivated tutors. Every agency possesses high-caliber instructors. Some just possess a lot of dross as well.

In that respect, the best advice (IMHO) is always to counsel a diver towards a comprehensive 'instructor selection' process for their diver training. There are plenty of threads and online articles that provide advice in that process.

 

[boulderjohn]

I don't see anything wrong with that.

No, there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, that's the point.

You keep saying "GUE good! PADI bad!" The point is that there is nothing inherently good or bad with either program, and the fact that the place that invented GUE teaches PADI as its only other agency=created courses indicates that it is all up to the instructor and how those course materials are handled.

 

[nimoh]

No, there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, that's the point.


You keep saying "GUE good! PADI bad!" The point is that there is nothing inherently good or bad with either program, and the fact that the place that invented GUE teaches PADI as its only other agency=created courses indicates that it is all up to the instructor and how those course materials are handled.

not saying that at all, as a matter of fact I think the PADI Rescue class is a very good class. All I am saying is that I didn't get a lot out of some of the PADI specialties, although I found peak performance buoyancy to be very good.


I did not in any post say "PADI bad!", I can only guess that you are inferring this from "The PADI specialties provide useful information, but in my opinion are not worth the money you pay for them".

It appears that my opinion is offending quite a few people. I apologize for that, and I'll just shut up now.

 

[spc751]

I believe I received more than what PADI's standards requires in the dives with this instructor. And it is not just a matter of doing a number of dives with an instructor. It is what you LEARN in those dives.

I did a lot of research into shops before I started diving and training with this shop. I hung around the shop to see how they treated customers and staff. Talked to divers that trained there and dove with them to see how they were in the water. This shop goes beyond the basic standards and it shows in their students. They work on kicks, trim, etc on all their courses. Another thing that I like is that this shop does PADI RecTec and includes some advanced theory in their courses.

The PADI courses that I have taken are not cheap but they are not expensive either because of the VALUE in them.

I took two specially courses from another agency almost one year ago. The theory was good but I still have not been able to pin the instructor down to do the required four dives (two for each specially). These courses were cheaper than the PADI courses I have taken but what good is a cheaper course if I cannot get it completed.

I am not taking courses to be a "Master Diver". I am taking courses because there is something I want to learn and I have investigated what this shop has to offer before I open my wallet.

 

[DevonDiver]

It appears that my opinion is offending quite a few people. I apologize for that, and I'll just shut up now.

I don't think you're offending anyone It's a good discussion - and raises some relevant points that could be beneficial for divers.

As a hypothetical... assuming the same instructor, what do you consider the 'value difference' between Fundies and equivalent training in other agencies?

Fundies is longer/more dives than most competitor agency courses at recreational diving levels. Obviously, longer training produces better results and permits a more comprehensive course syllabus. That costs proportionally more. It isn't "like-for-like" with PPB or Deep - it has much wider goals, which take longer to complete...and which you pay for.

Are there equivalents?... sure, of course. Given a minimum of 4 days training and 5 dives... you could complete a decent AN/Tec40 course which'd cover most of the same knowledge and skills - and which a well experienced instructor could easily match in quality and performance benchmark to Fundies. Heck... a good instructor could provide a PPB/Deep combination (6 dives) that could reap the same results.

The difference, as always boils down to the instructor concerned. Value is what you're prepared to pay to attain something. If a course is supplied, or a student's goal is to receive 'a card', then there is very little value. If the focus is on skills, knowledge and competency, then value is much more easily identified.

GUE/Fundies does a good job of re-establishing the focus (of instructors and students) on a performance outcome. Thus people perceive value easily. Other agencies, through mindset or policy, do a terrible job of promoting the concept of a performance outcome. Bad instructors provide 'off-the-shelf', minimum standard, courses and shift perceptions to the goal of receiving a 'card', a 'license' or a 'status'. In doing so, they effectively conceal their lack of teaching/diving ability. Some agencies aren't motivated to correct that...

But...again... were talking about instructors​, not courses.

 

[tracydr]

I would select specialties that have some " meat" to them.
Deep, navigation, drysuit, altitude, nitrox, search and rescue, wreck, cavern can be some good ones.