PADI Scuba Diver

[caydiver]

In the past week we had an email and call from a different individual regarding booking dives as a PADI Scuba Diver. The chap on the phone was borderline rude when I explained he couldn’t dive with us unless he had a private DM/Instructor. He kept insisting he had a c-card and was allowed to dive even he and gf were not OW. He said with a DM he could go below his depth. At the end of a long conversation he admitted he had been calling different ops and no one was helping him. On one level I feel sorry for his situation. He doesn’t know enough to understand why he has limits and feels short changed and ripped off. Anyone have any suggestions on dealing with these situations? My other guests have booked DSDs but were not really happy with that option but as they are only here for a day it is all we can offer. I don’t understand a cert that is not really a cert so get their angst.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

Any chance you could hire an instructor (and charge the customer) that could finish off their OW certification while diving with you? I saw that done on a dive operation in Maui once, where the main group of divers went off a wall while the student divers (2 of them) stayed shallow and finished things off.

FWIW, I know a lot of college students who take the class through their school and maybe can make 2 of the OW dives but not the last two, then never quite reschedule them. (For liability reasons, the universities I'm familiar with require you to do the written work but the actual certification is optional when it comes to getting the credit.) For that group, at least have the SCUBA Diver card gives them "proof" they don't need to take the whole class. Or somebody plans a trip too close to their last certification dives, then something happens (e.g., conditions aren't safe due to weather or something) and they can't get the dives done before the trip.

Not excusing either of the above: Just pointing out who might benefit from the certification that isn't.

 

[diversteve]

I know one- she has no desire to get o/w certified but likes to dive once per vacation - they cruise a lot also. The rest of the time is spent with her family.

works for her.

 

[caydiver]

Thanks. We are a six pack but our teaching is done through a long time well respected Platinum op. We could have had an instructor but tnis chap wants to join in for regular 2T dives and doesn’t understand why he can’t. Then couldn’t understand why we wouldn’t limit other divers to 40 feet. I feel as though perhaps it is a tad misleading for those who don’t want to hear what they don’t want to hear. Maybe the c-card should specifically mention an instructor or guide so they can see it themselves. Sending to the padi website did not help.

 

[jstreetley]

. Maybe the c-card should specifically mention an instructor or guide so they can see it themselves. Sending to the padi website did not help.

I always assumed the card did say something like that - in the same way as the Junior rankings say about diving with parent/guardian/PADI Pro

 

[northernone]

Here's my armchair quarterback thoughts:

I'd try to upsell him an OW training if you could enjoy teaching him in the time available. Otherwise, I'd offer to read the limitations of his current training from the padi standards. Pass the buck to a "higher authority" so he isn't fighting you personally. Once you're not the enemy needing beaten in the argument maybe he'll calm down and work out a solution together...

That said, are we certain he can't just dive with the group's DM supervising and you're still within standards?

Well that's my utopian ideal for the day!
Cameron

 

[caydiver]

Thank you. We had guys doing 100+ on a wonderful site called Ghost Mountain. We know them well and they are great divers. Although filling up the boat is always nice, we like happy safe guests even more. My chap insisted he had all his training. That said it was a great idea. I have never actially seen one of the cards but thanks for heads up on that as well.

 

[jstreetley]

Sounds like you've got it sorted then.

Just for the sake of completeness I had a look as someone in my club posted a photo of their card on Facebook last year. I don't want to copy it and upload it here, but it says:

PADI Scuba Diver
Qualified to dive with a
PADI Professional to 12m/40ft​

on the front side. I don't know if they've always said that but my Jnr Open Water from 2003 has the restriction text printed in the same place.

 

[Blasto]

He kept insisting he had a c-card and was allowed to dive even he and gf were not OW. He said with a DM he could go below his depth. At the end of a long conversation he admitted he had been calling different ops and no one was helping him.
Anyone have any suggestions on dealing with these situations?

I'd go along the lines of - "Yes, you're right, you are certified to dive. But the owner won't let us anyone without Open Water on fun dives." Following up with explaining the staff feels safer when everyone has more training than the minimum, and so on. When someone insists "yes I can", arguing "no you can't" puts them on the defensive; it's often better to agree with them and try to lead them around to the conclusion you want.

It's even technically true - it's quite legal to dive without a certificate at all, and many divers do so. Serving them as customers just makes the dive op look reckless in court if something happens.

After all, in the good/not so good old days, Open Water Diver used to mean something. It was the level where you'd grab some tanks, drive to the shore, and go diving with your friends. Shorter courses, wider range of diver fitness, safety focus, and super-litigation culture have driven it to the point where many dive ops will ask for a DM card for that.

And yeah, I'd even talk about that with him - make him proud of his certification, angry at someone other than you, and feel as much as possible in the same boat, with times having changed and everyone wanting higher cert levels now.

 

[caydiver]

Thank you all and for taking the time. I remember when people actually liked doing courses and working on their skills. I guess we can just google it now