PADI Rescue - Bait & switch?

[gezuvor]

Thanks Jon, I appreciate the clarification!

 

[garyfotodiver]

And that would be your second attempt at giving unbiased advise right Gary? [/i]

All advice is biased. Get used to the concept.

Most of the agency moaning on this board is about PADI. PADI does this, PADI doesn't do that. If you don't like what PADI requires, go somewhere else. The agency name on the card in your hand does not matter; that you have a card does.

Over the years I have dealt with two PADI LDSs. One I would use again, one I would not. It's strictly the attitude of the shop owner and the employees. The instructors follow the lead set by the owner.

As a small example, my 14 year-old daughter has a PADI Jr. OW card. She took her classroom and pool training at a shop here in Illinois. I would not take any more training from the IL shop because of their attitude of, "Become a DM with no experience except the dives needed in the several steps of training." This shop was not happy that I wanted to take her to Florida for her checkout dives. Hey, that's where we dive.

Took her to my FL shop, also PADI, and the attitude was 180 degrees different. Some might complain because her third dive was to 72fsw on a wreck. Beyond the "suggested" limits, right. I had no problem with that. I trust the instructor.

Instead of offereing theoretical or "book" advice, I try to only bring out my own observations and experience. Others should try it.

 

[durian]

Seems a bit short. In my Rescue course I actually had 3 days in the OW as the training was very thorough and they would not let me progress in the training until they were convinced that I really knew the stufff and was confident with it.

 

[RIDIVER501]

Yeah that seems a bit shady on the LDS's part. I have put off the next rescue class I was going to teach until after the 1st of the year so I can get up to speed with the new changes and so I avoid the very problem you are talking about Rick. If I had a class that was sittting on the fence between the two iterations I would probably suck up the extra cost myself, only becuase it seems unprofessional to me to quote a price to students then change that price on them mid stream, so to speak.

I think changing the price like that will hurt that shop in the long run with the students that are in the class.

 

[pt40fathoms]

Seems a bit short. In my Rescue course I actually had 3 days in the OW as the training was very thorough and they would not let me progress in the training until they were convinced that I really knew the stufff and was confident with it.

To clarify a little.....

The revised PADI Rescue course has the practical training portion separated into two categories. The first is the skills training; the second is the scenarios exercise. Both may be conducted in open water, or, the instructor may elect to conduct the skills development portion in confined water. The skills portion involves items such as how to approach a panicking diver, how to deal with an unresponsive diver at the surface, how to deal with an unresponsive diver under the water, and so on. It is my opinion that to be able to teach, practice, and evaluate these skills in confined water makes perfect sense. There is no benefit to be gained by doing them in open water. The scenario portion of the training however can only be done in open water, and it clearly has to be that way.

Personally I think the whole course should be done in Open water, not many rescues will be done in 3 to 15 ft of water now will they ? You should be made to suffer for this course, as S*d's Law says it'll be the third (4th) dive of the day when you need to help someone. You need to be made tired, stressed (p*ssed off) and then told to react to a situation. Surprising what that does to you later when you dive as a buddy again.

IMHO, allowing this to take place in a pool is a dumbing down of the course.

I hope my little clarification has eased your mind on this point. The course is not done entirely in confined water, only the portion that makes sense is "allowed" to be done in confined water.

 

[Rick Inman]

Yeah that seems a bit shady on the LDS's part. I have put off the next rescue class I was going to teach until after the 1st of the year so I can get up to speed with the new changes and so I avoid the very problem you are talking about Rick. If I had a class that was sittting on the fence between the two iterations I would probably suck up the extra cost myself, only becuase it seems unprofessional to me to quote a price to students then change that price on them mid stream, so to speak.

I think changing the price like that will hurt that shop in the long run with the students that are in the class.

Just to update, my LDS has said, don't worry about the extra cost. Then I said, no, if I get the new class, I'll pay for it.
We sound like two friends arguing over the lunch check. They really are trying to be good people, and I appreciate that.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the new class next month.

 

[Hoosier]

The LDS I use also lists these courses as seperate. The Rescue class is $130, the EFR couse is $35-50. Looks like that will change, but the remaining couses for the year show these as seperate classes.

Seems at the very minimum your LDS should be able to say, not more than $X additional based on their current class rates.

From what I read on the couse description, the EFR is classroom only, while the Rescue is done in pool and then OW and looks to include at least two OW dives, maybe more based on the location, and times listed.

I'm looking forward to taking these next year, but can't tell you more as I have NOT done them... yet :10:



I can’t believe that there are so many variations in prices for the class.

Is there the maximum price cap in PADI class?

LDS are always talking about the minimum manufacture price for the gear, but they never mention about the maximum price for the class.



I paid $261 for the rescue class. Sure, this price doesn’t include EFR ($125). It is cheap, isn’t it?


How much is it in your LDS?

$135

how much again? $135

 

[FatCat]

Easy folks, easy,

Lots of people quoted course prices, no-one thought to mention what's included in the price. Do you get to keep the manual or is it a loaner? How much pool time is there? Do you have to pay an entrance fee for the dive site? If so, how much is that? Is this entrance fee covered by the course fee? And so on...

Just to give you an example, where I live the average price for a Rescue Course is about 325 Euros (1 $ = 1.3 EUR at the moment) including course materials, cert fee and air fills. EFR is not included in the price. That's just the way it is.

And after having reviewed the new course content, I must admit to being quite happy about it. It's a thorough course and the addition of two new scenarios makes it the most comprehensive course I've seen so far (yes Gary, I know the SSI course, I even teach it...).

There's only one thing that bugs me though: searching for a lost diver in a pool? Must be a typo...

 

[RIDIVER501]

Hoosier there is no price cap persay. The price is set by what the market will bear, as well as what overhead the shop has to contend with and finally, what is being offered at other shops in the area. You also have to factor in what you get.

For example one of my shop's competitors offers basic classes for $100 less then us.
But when you look at what you get. the price is the price for the class. what you have to buy for Mask, snorkel & fins is another story.
With our competitor, you pay 100 less for the class, then you have to pay for your books, your pic card, your dive tables, log book on top of your MS&Fs. Hidden costs have driven some of their customers to us.

 

[scubadoguk]

LDS are always talking about the minimum manufacture price for the gear, but they never mention about the maximum price for the class. [/color]



I paid $261 for the rescue class. Sure, this price doesn’t include EFR ($125). It is cheap, isn’t it?


How much is it in your LDS?

$135

how much again? $135

You should ask what do I want from a class a nice badge a photocopy of a card all for nothing or a few dollars from kincos.
Then you could have spent a little, got a little and got happy win win