*&^$ PADI PIC envelope!

[Steve R]

The bottom line is that it is PADI INC. PADI is a business just like all of the others. The last time I checked, the general premise behind being a business was to make money. Some might even try to make a profit. Are PADI's materials more expensive? probably. I haven't priced other agencies material recently but I would guess that they are a little more expensive.

Just out of curosity, have you looked at the quality of PADI's materials in comparison of some of the others? Maybe there is a reason for that added expense.

If you could point out where I said it wasn't OK for anyone providing 'something' is not allowed to make a profit, it would be appreciated.

However, if you, like I have, dealt with Padi on a wide range of issues, and it seems to me through first hand experience that this was pretty much padi's single driving force, and the rest be damned, well then, we simply have a different opinion, and one that I am OK with.

As for the material from other agencies, again my friend I teach for a few, and have access to a few more agencies material. I find no real difference in thier worth to me or my students, because I teach from my experience mainly.

I would say ACUC's OW book is rather good when stacked against other I have seen.

I'm not sure who here mentioned it before, but it was either Walter, Thal or Mike F. but one of these guys said something to this effect......

Padi's material is perfect for the instructor that has little to no experience with diving. All they really need to do is teach word for word out of the text, and padi standard have been adhered to. Their lesson plans, good or bad are already done, and it takes no real effort nor thought. They've done it all for you.

For the OP's understanding, Padi's methodology is that all their courses are to be taught identically, so that any insrtuctor can pick up where the other has left off, and there will be no 'gap'.

It sounds great on paper, and it would be if their material was actually worth anything. Past track records are fairly indicative of future performance, so suffice it to say their training can only be done as they want by following their strict guidelines of material, which has be shown to lead to poorly trained divers. So you are paying top dollar for less and in most cases poorer instruction than can be had elsewhere.

IF that's what you want, they're your huckleberry. They have a very quick, glossy, and streamlined approach.

On the other hand, there are agencies out there that can appreciate the instructors experience and give a smaller set of standards, more cost effective material, and believe it or not actively encourage the instructor to bring whatever other material into their classes (no student cost required) that they find relevent to the course and students at hand, for their benefit.

This method works for me and our students,...YMMV of course.


Tollie: Agreed bud. The OP needs to ensure he has whatever will be accepted as a referral process to ensure he (his son) gets credit for previous dives. Something I neglected to mention before.

 

[muddiver]

It was common practice, last year, for Sport Chalet to make the student purchase the student pack, a new student folder for each course taken and a PIC card for each course taken through them. I don't agree that you need a new folder and a new PIC card for every class, but that is how they do it using PADI materials.

Personnally I buy all the instructor stuff, including PIC card/envelope and folder fo anyone I instruct. They, as students, don't have access to, nor can they buy these materials. So it would be rediculous to send them off to find anything except the course manual and student materials which can be found at any dive shop.

Is PADI material better than anyone elses, No. The U.S.N. Diving Manual and the NOAA Diving Manual are superior, but outside of AAUS and Commercial Diving, they are not eaisly intigrated into any of the courses by the standard SCUBA agencies (and I exclude the Tech training agencies).

 

[Garrobo]

I guess that's why I went with SDI.

 

[scubanimal]

One of the local dive shops here now is very strict on each student having a current manual for the class. Seems some individual successfully sued stating that she would not have been hurt if she had not shared the manual with her husband. I guess I can't fault the LDS for their position now, but it does add fodder to my confidence in our justice system. I guess it is not to big a stretch to see PADI moving to require proof they had a manual. I don't like it, and seems to be a process that is going to cause a lot of people frustration; sure hope they come up with something better.

 

[diver_pirate]

I believe this sticker is a new gimmick to insure each student owns a manual.

Realizing diving, instruction, book sales and travel are part of the business of improving the bottom line it dosen't hurt PADI or the dive shop unless the customer goes down the street to another (non-PADI) shop. There is also the fact that a lawyer could make the case that a student was instructed without the full benefit of a standard course there by costing dearly in legal fees and judgements. Course standards are important in passing blame if not met and the alternate if they were proved wrong.

In reality blame always goes for the deepest pockets.
Cynically yours,
DP

 

[mike_s]

You aren't the only one having this problem


see these threads.

Certification Problem-PADI hologram
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=175959

PADI Hologram
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=171920

Certification Problem
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=171660

 

[lazyturtle]

One thing I'm not clear on: Did your crew pack come with a PIC card to start with? If it did not then you would have had to buy it no matter where you did the course. $20-25 is fairly standard for a PIC.
The inclusion of a PIC is up to the shop, not PADI. Shops that have students who are going to complete the course will generally include the PIC, while those that expect thier students to finish elsewhere will either not include the PIC or sell it to you for an additional price. I'm acutally surprised that the shop you bought the original materials from did not sell you the PIC (since they make a small profit by selling it).
I have to say I've never seen a decal come with a crew pack in the past, but as I see in the other posts it seems to be a localized thing.
It's also worth noting that you are not required to own the book, merely have read it and answer the questions at the end of the chapters. I've had many students share books in the past without problem. There's also no reason (other than preference or availibility of internet connections) that the final instructor couldn't have done the PIC online (no sticker required there). I always do them that way as it gets the card to the student faster and cuts down on paper waste.

 

[Ann Marie]

I've referred a student to a Instructor in South America. I heard of the hologram and called PADI to ask about the referral. My understanding is this; books were being loaned by dive shops to students and PADI believes that each student should have a copy of their own book. The hologram proves to PADI that the student bought a book for themselves.

In my case, PADI told me to have the student bring a copy of the reciept for their book that would be included with their PIC card. So I sent the student with copies of all their paperwork, the pic card, and an additional copy of the receipt included with the paperwork.

No problems.

 

[Ann Marie]

It's also worth noting that you are not required to own the book, merely have read it and answer the questions at the end of the chapters. I've had many students share books in the past without problem. There's also no reason (other than preference or availibility of internet connections) that the final instructor couldn't have done the PIC online (no sticker required there). I always do them that way as it gets the card to the student faster and cuts down on paper waste.

Students ARE required to own their own books, no sharing. From the PADI website:


Required and Recommended Courses Materials

PADI Tightens Requirements Related to Diving Course Quality

Effective 1 January, 2006

The worldwide PADI organization prides itself on having the most educationally valid diving courses available. A cornerstone to this claim is the quality of its educational training materials when used by student divers; the educational model includes long-term review of key information. Effective 1 January 2006, PADI Members must ensure that student divers and leadership-level course candidates have, in their possession, a personal set of current materials (as defined in the attached lists of required materials) for study and use during the course and for reference afterward.

Since use of PADI materials is currently a requirement in several PADI courses and most PADI course attendees already use them, this new standard simply validates and better defines a common practice. If the materials listed are not available in a language understood by the student, the standard doesn’t apply. This standards change affects the International Resort and Retailer Associations membership standards as well as individual course standards for the following programs: PADI Scuba Diver/Open Water Diver course, Adventures in Diving program (Adventure Diver/Advanced Open Water Diver), Rescue Diver course, Divemaster course, Instructor Development Course (Assistant Instructor course and Open Water Scuba Instructor program).

PADI student divers using PADI course materials and retaining them for reference reap the following long-term benefits:

Enhanced course value.
Allows and encourages them to make personal notes in the materials, which assists learning and retention.
Allows them to effectively complete the quick quizzes and knowledge reviews in the materials—a key learning step in PADI’s educational system.
Puts current materials in their hands.
Using new materials increases course quality and adds professionalism (as opposed to libraried, worn and outdated materials which sacrifice professionalism and quality).
Makes it possible for learning to continue after the course by providing a resource when questions arise from new diving situations.
Allows them to refresh and reinforce previously-learned information to aid in long-term retention.
Provides references to build on for continuing education courses.
Materials displayed in a personal library encourage divers to seek further adventure and experience.
Leadership level candidates not only need materials during their own courses, but also need these materials to reference after certification while supervising divers and teaching courses themselves.
Unfortunately, in some areas, PADI Members have been lending course materials to student divers. This new standard does not allow that; it ensures that PADI divers can realize the many benefits of having and retaining their own materials.

Please refer to the Required and Recommended Materials Lists to see which course materials your student divers and instructor candidates must have for their courses, and retain afterward. Note that the lists also include educational materials that are highly recommended.

The 2006 editions of the PADI International Resort and Retailer Associations Standards and the PADI Instructor Manual, as well as the PADI Course Director Manual has updated standards regarding required (and recommended) student diver and leadership level course materials.

 

[Firediver32]

PADI = P (put) A (another) D(dollar) I(in)