PADI not teaching dive tables anymore?

[boulderjohn]

So if everybody is all for ditching tables or any form of deco theory. Tell divers just do what the computer tells you. What's next? Assembly of dive gear can be taken out. Most divers are warm water vacation divers and the dm will assembly all the gear and change tanks.

Who said we don't teach deco theory? Mark Powell wrote an entire book on deco theory (Deco for Divers) and nowhere in it does he teach tables. They are two different things. Deco theory is one thing; how we plan dives to account for it is another. I teach deco theory in a course right from the start. I do it the same every time. When we get to the part about dive planning, I either teach tables or computers, depending upon the course.

I am sorry that your dive training did not teach you the difference. If you were taught that deco theory and the tables were the same thing, you should go back to your instructor and demand remedial training.

---------- Post added January 26th, 2013 at 09:58 PM ----------

When I get a dive briefing, I check the tables against the stated depth of the dive so I have a good idea of what my bottom time should be. Then I look at my watch on the downline and have an idea in my brain (i.e. the backup to my computer) as to what time I need to be back at my safety stop. If PADI is not teaching tables anymore, where is the backup and/or double check against what the computer is telling you? Several have said the the computer training is "very comprehensive". I'm trying to get a more specific answer as to what that entails.

I'm sorry no one has taught you how to do the same thing with a computer. If you take the new PADI OW course, you will learn how.

 

[Scott]

Dr Dive sez: Fine idea to teach computer use exclusively, but I have 2 real world concerns from numerous dive deck observations: what does the table ignorant diver do when they try to turn the computer on, and it fails? Sure, they are supposed to check it pre-dive, but sometimes they just don't work. With no backup, tables or RDP, they have to not dive, depend on a table knowledgeable diver to help, or "share" computers with somebody.

No different than the diver who enters the water and finds bottom timer failed or their depth guage still reads 2 feet when they are at 20. Abort the dive

What does the nitrogen loaded diver, whose computer fails on the surface interval do? Without some manual back-up (tables don't run on batteries), the computer dependent diver is helpless, and totally dependent, on the knowledge and good graces of a better prepared diver or boat crew. Fact is computers are great, but they fail. You need a back-up plan, and "hoping for the best" won't cut it.

Aborts the dive and snorkels during dive #2 until another computer is rented, borrowed or purchased for tomorrows dive or sits on the deck and learns tables in 15 minutes and uses your bottom timer and depth guage and does a conservative square profiled dive.

 

[TMHeimer]

The question has been answered by several. PADI allows several options, including tables and computers. Which is taught is up to the LDS or independent instructor. As far as the old "tables vs. computers" thing, I used to feel tables should be taught (as well as basic computer info., as there are many brands of computers--but only one PADI RDP). I have modified my stance lately, as it seems many more divers will now use computers, even since the dark ages of years ago when I took OW (late 2005.....). I do think the tables should be included in the OW manual and there should be a couple of problems on the exam to be done with them. I think it is an important visual representative of the DCS model computers are based on-- even if tables are really only good for square profiles. I have done mostly square profiles over the years and find that I pretty much have the max times for each depth memorized. If on a boat that will do a 90' dive followed by a 60' one I pretty much know what's gunna happen that day. Not sure how valuable that is, but it can't hurt. I do agree that teaching tables in class could take a lot of time that may be devoted elsewhere. When I took Nitrox the instructor spent a lot of (wasted for me) time going over the AIR tables first for a couple of classmates. But IF I CAN FIGURE TABLES OUT BY READING THE INSTRUCTIONS ANYBODY CAN!!! Crap, I even did that with NITROX TABLES. If one can't figure them out on one's own, well........

 

[UWRCN]

Who said we don't teach deco theory? Mark Powell wrote an entire book on deco theory (Deco for Divers) and nowhere in it does he teach tables. They are two different things. Deco theory is one thing; how we plan dives to account for it is another. I teach deco theory in a course right from the start. I do it the same every time. When we get to the part about dive planning, I either teach tables or computers, depending upon the course.

I am sorry that your dive training did not teach you the difference. If you were taught that deco theory and the tables were the same thing, you should go back to your instructor and demand remedial training.

---------- Post added January 26th, 2013 at 09:58 PM ----------


I'm sorry no one has taught you how to do the same thing with a computer. If you take the new PADI OW course, you will learn how.

So when did i say tables and deco theory were exactly the same? Do i think a new diver should have a basic understanding of what is thought to go on inside our bodies when we dive, yes. Should a new diver have a basic understanding of how tables were developed and how to implement them, yes. Do i think this is just another way for PADI to make money and help instructors like you crank students through, yes.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[lowviz]

There are instructors that stress the mechanics of tables, work you through a PC's presentation of your dive, offer an extra helping of deco theory, or just speed cert you as "good to go on vacation".

The adept student will consider his/her learning abilities, interests, and needs before choosing. I see no problem with having a choice.

 

[TSandM]

You know, I learned tables in my OW class. I bought and used a computer as a new diver, and was quite baffled as to how to try to fit my terrain-based, computer-monitored dives into the pressure groups I had been taught. And today, I use neither tables nor a computer, and know a heck of a lot more about decompression theory than I did when I finished my table-based OW class. And I think that the best thing is to teach new divers the theory of decompression -- teach them about nitrogen absorption and offgassing, and about ascent rates and stops, and bubbling and bubble mechanics. And then go through their computers with them, and make sure they understand what the displays mean, and what they should do if they exceed their NDL, and how the computer will indicate that and coach them through it.

If their computer fails, they won't dive until they buy or rent another one. If my regulator fails, I won't dive until I buy or rent another one, right?

Tables are inflexible, overly conservative, fairly confusing, and in my experience, not regularly used by anyone anywhere. Why teach them?

 

[RJP]

Great metaphor. Really shining a spotight on your IQ..... See, I can be funny too

Does that chip on your shoulder effect your buoyancy/trim?

 

[boulderjohn]

So when did i say tables and deco theory were exactly the same?

Isn't that what you implied when you said this to following?

So if everybody is all for ditching tables or any form of deco theory. Tell divers just do what the computer tells you.

Who said anything about not teaching deco theory?That's not what the course teaches at all. Do you always take blind guesses at content you have never seen and then make judgments about its quality?

Do i think a new diver should have a basic understanding of what is thought to go on inside our bodies when we dive, yes.

Who said anything different?

Should a new diver have a basic understanding of how tables were developed and how to implement them, yes.

Why should a diver who is never going to use tables learn to implement them? When I took drivers education, they did not teach me how to turn the crank in front of the car to start it up. They figured I would be using different technology.

Do i think this is just another way for PADI to make money and help instructors like you crank students through, yes.

Please explain how PADI makes one dime more selling a course book that teaches decompression through computers rather than a course that teaches the tables. Students taking the computer course actually have to read an additoinal book that is in the course at no additional cost. PADI had to spend a lot of money to develop the new course and especially the electronic simulator students use. This course gets PADI no additional revenue, and it cost them more to develop, so it is a net revenue loser for PADI.

As for instructors like me cranking students through the course, the additional materials for computer usage take about as long to teach as the tables do, so there is no time savings.

 

[diveprof]

I heartily agree that there needs to be a backup plan if you don't want to miss dives if your computer fails. However, tables are not the best backup answer for the recreational diver. If you are on your 3rd multilevel dive of the day when your computer dies, you are at best guessing as to your remaining NDL time with tables. To me, the best backup answer is a second dive computer. Some may argue that this as a "costly" approach to a back-up, but you can buy back-up nitrox capable dive computers under $200 if you are a careful shopper. I think $200 is cheap when you consider having to miss dives on a trip that has set you back a couple grand or more. If cost is the driving factor, skip the wireless AI computer and buy a SPG and two non-wireless, non-AI computers for about the same price.

 

[rhwestfall]

A student should learn whatever method they intend to implement. Understand the "limitations" imposed by selection, and do their diving accordingly.... simple as that.

Computers used to be outrageous from a cost standpoint (some still are), so tables were mainstream. The cost for many computers has reached a point, it seems silly not to have one (and for $200, a back-up like a B.U.D. even becomes viable).

Choices, choices, choices... its not so bad.

FWIW - I still think tables should be part of the curriculum because it is the minimum level necessary to plan a dive, but that's just me.