TomZ - I have to say that I agree with you; although I am a PADI AOW diver I have found that the course and a total of 8 dives does not really make a person an advanced diver; I agree it is a misnomer; after diving both PADI and SSI I find that I agree more with SSI with the Advanced Open Water; for SSI you need to have 4 specialties and 25 dives to be considered advanced; I am sure many people would disagree with me on this due to the PADI/SSI conflict but although I enjoy the PADI training I do believe that 2 courses and 8 dives does not make someone advanced. I have between 25 - 40 dives and still do not consider myself an advanced diver although I hold the PADI rating.
Padi Master scuba diver
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Griffo
Contributor
I actually think they need to change the name of their current AOW cert, but it will never happend. I believe letting novice divers think they are somehow advanced is just setting them up for injury and death.
I think SSI have a better approach - to be "advanced" you need to do full specialty courses, not simply a try-dive. If it was up to me i'd also make a full rescue course a requirement of AOW too, and ensure that the specialites have to fall into a certain bucket - i.e deep and nav would qualify, but not photo or boat diver - but that would make the PADI 5Star standard practice of up-selling OW students to AOW just a bit hard for the money making machine to keep churning over.
DevonDiver
N/A
Where is the misnomer?
PADI Advanced Open WaterDiver
If it were named the 'PADI Advanced Diver' course, then fair enough.... but it isn't.
SSI AOW equates most closely to the PADI Master Scuba Diver rating (mix of specialty and rescue qualifications needed). The SSI equivalent of PADI AOW is the SSI Advanced Adventurer course.
Advanced - "ahead in development or progress".
Advanced Open Water - "a development or progression at Open Water diver level"
I do agree that it would be beneficial for PADI to re-name the AOW course. Not because it makes any false representation of its level - but purely because an endless supply of novice divers cannot read any other word in the title except 'advanced'. Some sort of attention deficit disorder or distraction by a single word in a larger context...
---------- Post added April 15th, 2013 at 11:04 AM ----------
Except, as mentioned, they have the 'Advanced Adventurer' level... which equates almost directly to the PADI Advanced Open Water.
Context... it matters...
jIM STEELE
Contributor
That card and $6 will get you a tank filled with RIX non lube oil free air. Just dive get good take advanced open water just after your open water and rescue to get what you_( should have gotten from your basic class) and enjoy diving for lobster fish photo research or what ever you can get turned on over. take classes you like and support your local dive shop and or club.
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PADI can change the AOW name or not--shouldn't matter. I got mine after 15 total dives, including the AOW course dives, 3 of which were in a fresh water springs and the "Deep" boat dive to 63 fsw. I knew then that it was just a neat card to have, that I could go to 100' and be allowed to do so on any charter, and that I had become somewhat of a better diver. I also knew I was not advanced because I'm not that stupid.
Exactly. We did the PADI eLearning for OW and AOW, then traveled to Mexico. Two days of diving and the OW was completed. AOW followed immediately. We didn't think we were advanced, we just knew the AOW enhanced what we'd started learning with the OW certification. We actually did a deep dive for the deep dive portion - 100 feet at The Arches off Playa del Carmen. We figured that with the two classes, we knew enough to start really learning. And REALLY learning, at that stage, is mostly a matter of practice.
Where is the misnomer?
PADI Advanced Open WaterDiver
If it were named the 'PADI Advanced Diver' course, then fair enough.... but it isn't.
SSI AOW equates most closely to the PADI Master Scuba Diver rating (mix of specialty and rescue qualifications needed). The SSI equivalent of PADI AOW is the SSI Advanced Adventurer course.
Advanced - "ahead in development or progress".
Advanced Open Water - "a development or progression at Open Water diver level"
I do agree that it would be beneficial for PADI to re-name the AOW course. Not because it makes any false representation of its level - but purely because an endless supply of novice divers cannot read any other word in the title except 'advanced'. Some sort of attention deficit disorder or distraction by a single word in a larger context...
---------- Post added April 15th, 2013 at 11:04 AM ----------
Except, as mentioned, they have the 'Advanced Adventurer' level... which equates almost directly to the PADI Advanced Open Water.
Context... it matters...
It may not be a misnomer, but it is misleading. Consider the context: The Open Water cert turns a person into a novice diver, teaching a number of valuable skills, and establishing a basic understanding of diving. The AOW would logically take this to the next level, reinforcing and refining those valuable skills, adding new skills to the diver's tool box, and producing an advanced diver. In practice, AOW is a handful of adventure dives, with no mastery of new "next level" skills. And really, no refinement of the existing skills.
You can quibble over the semantics, but there really isn't anything advanced about AOW training. It's more like a sampler for specialties that a diver might want to invest in on his next vacation.
diverrex
Contributor
While I don't agree with it and wish it was changed I understand from a marketing view why PADI or any agency uses the terms "Advanced" and "Master". And I support any diver that gets continuing education.
But I think it is up to all instructors to make sure each of their students receiving those certifications hear something like:
"Congratulations you passed the AOW class and will receive that certification. I do believe your skills have advanced since you entered the class but please be aware you are not necessarily an Advanced diver. You should be very careful in your dive site and condition selection. There are many dives or conditions you are still not qualified for. Continue to dive and practice skills within your reasonable limits, take additional classes, dive with a mentor or more experienced diver, and continue to learn and advance your skills. Have fun but dive safe!"
I'm sure those more experienced than me could think of much more to say.
But I think it is up to all instructors to make sure each of their students receiving those certifications hear something like:
"Congratulations you passed the AOW class and will receive that certification. I do believe your skills have advanced since you entered the class but please be aware you are not necessarily an Advanced diver. You should be very careful in your dive site and condition selection. There are many dives or conditions you are still not qualified for. Continue to dive and practice skills within your reasonable limits, take additional classes, dive with a mentor or more experienced diver, and continue to learn and advance your skills. Have fun but dive safe!"
I'm sure those more experienced than me could think of much more to say.
DevonDiver
N/A
Not really. It clearly states: "Advanced Open Water". It doesn't state: "Advanced Diver" or anything to that effect.
It's only misleading if you completely ignore 2 out of 3 words in the title...
That logic is your perception. It defies the plainly worded title of the qualification.
Open Water turns a person into a novice diver. Advanced Open Water remains a novice qualification at that level. Again, the level is clearly defined in the title... "Open Water".
If that were intended, or true, then they'd call the qualification "Advanced Diver", wouldn't they? But they don't.... The emphasis remains firmly upon the 'Open Water' level.
Again...two out of three words...
I can't argue about what AOW provides. But I can object to false assumptions about what it claims to provide. The course content, goals and outcome are clearly stated. The qualification title is also emphatic in stressing the level of the training....'Open Water'.
I think we're all quite clear on what AOW provides, and how. Where we differ is whether we acknowledge the words 'Open Water' in the title, or whether we focus entirely on the single word 'Advanced'...and then imagine the word 'Diver' after it..
chrpai
Contributor
I'm struggling with your perspective because you left out one of the words yourself. The title is clearly: Advanced Open Water Diver
By your implication anyone who is an "open water" diver is by definition a novice. I would take offense at that statement. I'm by no means a "novice" diver. I just choose to limit the conditions that I'll dive in to those parameters.
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