Effective March 2009, all IDC candidates MUST have EFR (or another qualifying program) instructor rating before their applications can be processed.
PADI Emergency First Response Question
- Thread starter mulegeman
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DropkickMurphy
Contributor
This is the information I was operating off of. I heard several that this was coming down the pike from one of my friends who is an instructor. So much for "hogwash".
This is the information I was operating off of. I heard several that this was coming down the pike from one of my friends who is an instructor. So much for "hogwash".
...that all Scuba Instructors teach emergency first aid for three very good reasons:
1. After 20 years of teaching emergency medical response, I know all too well the dismal retention rate of EMR knowledge & skills in the lay public ( no slight intended - its results from the classic "if you don't use it you lose it" conundrum...)
2. It is well known that retention & proficiency score highest in those individuals that teach a subject to others ( though proficiency is best honed through experience, thus professional EMR responders top that list, but we can't expect all our instructors to be practicing paramedics! )
3. When the ca-ca hits the fan, to whom do folks look to for leadership/ action?
Best,
DSD
Joefri
Registered
Well then I apologize, I guess it isn't hogwash. It's April 2009 and the PADI website has no mention of this anywhere on their site.
Way to go PADI, keep up the awesome work of keeping everyone informed about policies that are already in effect!
DropkickMurphy
Contributor
That is not the point I am arguing. I'm talking about someone who has more advanced training being forced to take the SpEd version of a first responder course. It's not that I have a problem with preparedness; as someone who worked as an EMS provider and instructor for over a decade (and who currently lectures on disaster preparedness) and who as a diver takes the theory of redundant systems and skills checks to a level that borders on technical diving, I am more for preparedness training than most people.
It is simply the approach to training and certification that is mandated that bothers me. The only logical explanation for closing the "exemption by higher credential" approach is if PADI (or any other agency for that matter) is attempting to assure their income from courses is maximized. I don't think the PADI course is going to make an instructor who is a doctor or a paramedic or even a respiratory therapist any better at teaching people how to administer first aid and oxygen. There is simply not enough difference between the initial care for a general medical patient and an ill diver to warrant an expensive class simply to have the course. That said the EFR course is a great idea for the diver or instructor whose day job (or previous career) was as a mechanic or teacher or fast food worker and you will not hear me say otherwise. However there should be an exemption for those of us who are not coming from those backgrounds.
...you will get no arguement from me. I'm sorry, I should have supported your position first prior to taking off on a tangent.
DSD
Wilderness First Aid (whether NOLS, ARC or whomever) meets the CPR/FA requirements for Rescue, DM & AI.
OWSI candidates must become EFR Instructors but there is a simple crossover program in place for those who are already instructors for another ILCOR/BLS compliant agency. If you aren't already teaching for another agency, you'll need to take the instructor level EFR course.
I now return you to the same old tired anti-PADI rants that these threads always turn into.
rescue15
Contributor
I know it was a long time ago, but when I took PADI Rescue, I was a CPR, and an ACLS instructor. I was also a practicing EMT-P. I was told it was not good enough and I had to sit through the what was then called Medic First Aid Specialty.
More recently, I approched DAN to challenge their course program in several areas, Oxygen administration being one of them. (I am worried about liability if on a dive boat in another state, if someone needs care and I am the highest certified on the boat. My EMT cert is only good in the state it is issued, as that state's medical director is putting up his license to say I am competent. Outside that state it isn't worht the paper it's printed on. It is more complex than that but that is the main point.) Anyway, DAN said I have to take the entire program with no credit for what I am already certified in. Their programs are no better than the EFR class that PADI offers.
Bottom line is it keeps being reinforced that dive certification agencies are mostly all the same...PADI just has the right acronym for Put Another Dollar In.
It is not only in EFR, but in all the programs. Life experience or certifications from other agencies, outside the diving world (someone mentioned Armed forces) are not given the credit they deserve.
Steve
To PADI's credit, they did recognize some of my past experience as a commercial diver when I applied to teach their Nitrox course. I asked for some credit for the 1000's of hours of gas diving I had done commercially. My request was taken in front of a board whose authority could grant such a request, & to my suprise, they did.
It may of helped that the current president of PADI was one of my instructors in commercial dive school some 29 years ago...
Best,
DSD
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couple of points. Yes, you do need to be EFRI prior to becoming an instructor. I'm a PADI MI and I actually disagree with this. Those of you who have been through the courses will understand - it doesn't make a lot of sense. In my opinion, it should have been added as an extra day during the IDC or something. As for information - PADI announced it a year in advance and kept everybody very well informed thankyou!
EFR and PADI are separate companies with the same address - as is DSAT
EFR is a good course for basic CPR and first aid. PADI will honour any and all similar qualifications from other organisations where they are required.
EFRI has almost nothing to do with first aid - it's a course on how to teach the EFR course. If you're going to teach it, it makes sense to have done the actual EFR course prior to doing it, just so you know how it goes. It is not retarded in the slightest. EFR is a layperson's course, not an advanced medical degree. I knew a former paramedic who insisted on teaching tourniquet application during EFR classes. Without proper training, this can be fatal - we're not training doctors, we're training people with no foundation how to maybe help others in distress.
The breakdown for course materials / books / and courses as separate is more to do with dive shops than PADI. My place bundles the whole thing into one price. The reason they are offered as separate entities is actually a good thing for dive centres, so for example a person can buy a book in advance, complete the study before they go on holiday, just do the underwater stuff when they get there.
Safe diving,
C.
EFR and PADI are separate companies with the same address - as is DSAT
EFR is a good course for basic CPR and first aid. PADI will honour any and all similar qualifications from other organisations where they are required.
EFRI has almost nothing to do with first aid - it's a course on how to teach the EFR course. If you're going to teach it, it makes sense to have done the actual EFR course prior to doing it, just so you know how it goes. It is not retarded in the slightest. EFR is a layperson's course, not an advanced medical degree. I knew a former paramedic who insisted on teaching tourniquet application during EFR classes. Without proper training, this can be fatal - we're not training doctors, we're training people with no foundation how to maybe help others in distress.
The breakdown for course materials / books / and courses as separate is more to do with dive shops than PADI. My place bundles the whole thing into one price. The reason they are offered as separate entities is actually a good thing for dive centres, so for example a person can buy a book in advance, complete the study before they go on holiday, just do the underwater stuff when they get there.
Safe diving,
C.
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