PADI eBusiness - Atomic Online - 800 Pound Gorilla in the Room

[rakkis]

Wouldn't NAUI be the second largest?

 

[boulderjohn]

Because by definition, they would have to be local, in which case why not just go there? (Or they could be distant, and you could go there.)

Either way it would eliminate the ability to to do it "wherever, whenever."

I am sorry that you did not have time to read the rest of the thread when this question was answered 7-8 times.

People cannot always match their schedules with the LDS is the number one reason--as it is one of the primary reasons for the many thousands of people who are doing this in other areas of education.

Some people also do better in that learning environment.

Most importantly, it could be the local dive shop running the class, freeing up their own class room space and times.

 

[GrandpaScuba]

Wouldn't NAUI be the second largest?

Nope. Not anymore. I think they were in the 80's but have been losing market share over time.

Part of the dynmic going here is PADI/SSI are for-profit. YMCA/NAUI are non-profit orgs.

Also, in the 80's many of the shops were dual PADI/NAUI. When PADI started demanding that the shops be exclusive to PADI, NAUI got dropped by most of them.

 

[RJP]

I am sorry that you did not have time to read the rest of the thread when this question was answered 7-8 times.

You've missed my point I think; in fact I wasn't even asking a question.

 

[countryboy]

Interesting topic. Phil thanks for the info...

Couple of observations... (FWIW I work in "technology" and can see both sides of the coin)

With the new shift to "e-learning", how many people will do the on-line portion but never complete the OW requirements? I see this as putting the $$ in PADI's pocket, but still not brining anything locally.. If they cannot free their schedule for the weekend wonder class, what will make them free their schedule for the weekend checkout dives?

You (meaning any dive professional) have the opportunity to take either side and make it work to your advantage..

Private instructor - Deliver the "personal" training experience, charge appropriately.

E-Learning Instructor - Teach your "modules" whether online (academic), confined water, or open water.. network with your peers, develop a solid referral system..

Times are changing, those that adapt will survive.. those that sit and ***** will fail.

Good luck to all!

Personally, I will offer the "discover local diving" e-learning modules.. Look at my pictures while you sit in a bath tub full of icewater.. (joke)...

 

[boulderjohn]

You've missed my point I think; in fact I wasn't even asking a question.

Sorry. Lost my head. I foolishly thought this was a question:

Because by definition, they would have to be local, in which case why not just go there?

 

[RonFrank]

Quote:
One thing that does bother me however is Apollo's price fixing policies. The US was built on a free market, and competitive model. How is refusing to allow retails to compete going to work out for Apollo?

I must apologize to Apollo. I changed this in the original post, I meant Atomic, not Apollo. Atomic does not allow internet sales, but I guess that is about to change, but hardly in that they will continue to prevent authorized dealers to sell online or compete on price. Their internet biz will be via local dealers with one internet provider offering a drop ship type of arrangement via authorized dealers if my understanding is accurate.

Ironically one can purchase just about any Atomic product at reduced prices via LP, so basically retailers will NOT be allowed to compete, or sell online, and people will only have one place to shop for a competitive price online, LP. IMO this is NOT the way to do business.

 

[Azza]

Only certified instructors are allowed to teach the academic portions now. Why would that change?

I don't understand why it is necessary that the person who conducts the online portion (academics) can't also do the pool and the OW portions of the class.

Money. Who do you think is going to be teaching these e-learning sessions? Do you think it will be the LDS instructors? Maybe the part time instructors that work for the shop will teach online during their day job instead of surfing Scubaboard and The Deco Stop?
My understanding, which comes from information from my local PADI Rep about a year and a half ago when they were first coming up with the idea, was that PADI will be teaching these e-learning sessions, not a local instructor or LDS. They are not going to employ thousands of instructors to sit in a windowless cubicle all day to teach basic classroom work.
My guess is that they may initially start with a couple of thousand PADI Instructors who will one day sit up and think "Hey I didnt pay $7 grand to become an instructor and sit in a windowless cubicle with my highlight of the day being spent around the watercooler discussing who shagged who last night. I became an instructor to work in the sun, enjoy hands on teaching, diving and shagg hot chicks, not talk about it!
Then PADI will phase in a whole lot of cheap labour to do the job instead.
Well thats my view

I'm seeing alot of this presumed 'font-of-all-that-is-good-knoweldge' status of the instructors (all over the board); what I'm not seeing is how any of us can be sure than any instructors are any better or worse than a book or online module regarding diving academics (just the academics, not the physical diving).
It looks like every presumed flaw in e-delivery is accountable by a better, more flexible instructor - but what if that's not there? What if a student needs to go over everything twice and the instructor doesn't? Sure, the instructor then needs to be more patient and flexible, but how is that monitored or controlled? (And don't say "by being certified as an instructor from the agency" - that's a cheap non-answer.)

Well this is the thing old mate. You don't know if an instructor is any good untill you have been trained by one. You can limit the possibility of getting a poor instructor by recommendations but then again...One instructor might be great for one student and rather piss poor for the next. Thats because people learn differently and different techniques need to be employed for different folks in courses.

There is also no way to "monitor or control" instructor quality. You can go a small way toward that from audits but again it is not fail proof.

It's really amazing how many people in this thread know everything that is wrong with a program without ever having seen it.

And it's amazing that you know nothing is wrong with it. As Thalassamania said earlier in the thread, you don't get quality when you carve up courses. Thats my belief and it comes from experience. Up on the barrier reef their is one shop that certifies more students per year than my whole country does in a year.
They run it like a production line.
One instructor teaches class
Another the shallow end of the pool skills
Another the deep end of the pool skills
Another the OW dives 1 & 2
Another OW dives 3 & 4.

I have seen the students they turn out and they scare the **** outa me.

I would hate to see similar results from PADI E-Learning.

 

[boulderjohn]

As I said in my first post in this thread, online education is my profession. I have been designing and teaching online classes, first as a very small part of my life and later as my full time job, for 12 years.

But I am out of my league here. The number of people who know so much more about the concept than I is overwhelming, and I must humbly withdraw from the field.

 

[Azza]

As I said in my first post in this thread, online education is my profession. I have been designing and teaching online classes, first as a very small part of my life and later as my full time job, for 12 years.

But I am out of my league here. The number of people who know so much more about the concept than I is overwhelming, and I must humbly withdraw from the field.

Come on John, don't be like that. I for one appreciate your contribution to this thread. I really do. But remember this is a discussion forum and everyone has their own thoughts.
You have enligtened us on how a lot of online classes operate but i guess the biggest hurdle is we know very little about how PADI will implement their system. I mean lets be honest, most online education, by the sounds of it, is pretty academic but an OW course is not particularly rocket science is it? I mean you wouldnt need an instructor per se to teach this would you?
I guess the question is "do you know PADI's strategy and logistics for this"?