PADI eBusiness - Atomic Online - 800 Pound Gorilla in the Room

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Thalassamania:
That Instructor will be about as good as your cellphone company's customer service representitive. Would you permit you loved one to take such a course?

Should I take this personally?

Online courses are being taught all around the world by caring and diligent instructors. In Colorado, where I live, something like 6,000 students are enrolled in an online school full time in grades K-12. Many thousands more are taking single classes online.

How is it that you know that every teacher who teaches online sucks so very badly? What kind of research did you do to find that out?
 
Azza:
In fact it probably won't be an instructor. No Dive Instructor wants to sit in an office all day/night and teach online. People don't become instructors for that reason.
He will be given a perfunctory 5 day class on some of the academics he must teach then set free to "instruct" you. He may not even be a diver...

It would be required to be an instructor, just as it is now.

In the online program in which I work, we are required to use nothing but highly qualified teachers, according to federal standards. We have to have copies on their teaching certificates and other credentials on file, just as every other school is. In fact, we have higher standards than many other schools, since private schools are not required to hire teachers with any level of expertise whatsoever.

It's really amazing how many people in this thread know everything that is wrong with a program without ever having seen it.
 
PhilEllis:
Steve, it would "roughly" double it. My estimation is that Leisure Pro is, by far, the largest............today. But they had better not underestimate the abilities of Larry and Jim.

Phil Ellis

My experience and history with dealing with businesses like Leisurepro (think Adorama, BH photo, the ENTIRE NY diamond market) is that they will not underestimate anybody, and they will grow stronger in the face of competition.
 
boulderjohn:
Should I take this personally?

Online courses are being taught all around the world by caring and diligent instructors. In Colorado, where I live, something like 6,000 students are enrolled in an online school full time in grades K-12. Many thousands more are taking single classes online.

How is it that you know that every teacher who teaches online sucks so very badly? What kind of research did you do to find that out?
No, distance learning can work well, your program clearly does. There are lots of requirements for your personnel. This is not going to play play out that way.

Teaching diving is part professor, part coach, part mentor and part friend and I don't think that the division of those roles into separate chunks will improve diving instruction, especially since it will guarantee that only viable long term instructors will be folks like myself who only teach friends and the truly filth rich.
 
PhilEllis:
EVERYONE in the dive industry will readily admit that, as an industry, we have failed miserably in converting all of the interest in scuba diving over to actual certifications and the creation of life-long scuba divers. Like any industry, relative volume and new demographic entries into the sport is essential. Without industry growth, EVERY current and future diver suffers.

Phil Ellis

First thanks for the perspective on DEMA.

I completely agree with the above statement. I'd go one farther and say the industry has failed badly in utilizing the internet for most everything, with a few exceptions.


Despite the huge dotcom failures, they had one thing right. The internet IS the future of commerce, growth, increased market, advertising, education, and will touch and change the world in ways that we have yet to foresee.

So what does the Scuba Industry do? Basically denounce it. Manufactures prevent retailers from selling products on the net. Retailer's refuse to advertise, or establish good web presence. Die in the wool industry experts discourage all aspects, and magazines like ScubaDiving routinely publish fear articles based on internet purchases, and encourage divers to seek their LDS as they only valid form of education for both certification or gear.

Evolve or Die maybe an overused idiom, but it applies to business, and the Scuba industries die hard resistance to the net is foolish.

I'm glad to see some industry leaders FINALLY pulling their heads out of the sand, and realizing they MUST embrace the paradigm that is the net.

One thing that does bother me however is Atomic's price fixing policies. The US was built on a free market, and competitive model. How is refusing to allow retails to compete going to work out for Atomic?
 
RonFrank:
One thing that does bother me however is Apollo's price fixing policies. The US was built on a free market, and competitive model. How is refusing to allow retails to compete going to work out for Apollo?

Fixing an advertised price and fixing what the dealer may choose to sell it for are different. The first maintains the value of a product (think ipods) the second generally only works for very high end products that make up for less volume in big margins when they carve a market niche and demand.
 
RonFrank:
Despite the huge dotcom failures, they had one thing right.

(Just as an aside, from someone who worked with underwriting masses of dotcoms' IPOs as well as living in the heart of that geographic area, the "dotbomb" was the direct result of greed and impatience, riding the newest get-very-rich-very-quickly gravy train; many startups were in it only for the VC, and had NO business plan - the VCs ate it up because they didn't know the territory, and the geeks talked the good talk. Unfortunately, many really good companies were pulled down as a result of the general loss of confidence. The fall of post-millennial startup culture had nothing to do with their grasp of the internet - only the extent of their greed.)
 
Hmmm...

Now if I was an enterprising dude, I'd give this "e-learning" approach serious consideration.

If I had the means, I'd open up retail/training stores in New York, DC, Miami, Dallas, LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, Honolulu, USVI and maybe a few other hubs. I'd standardize the equipment line at all stores, offer complete product and warranty service, and follow a beginner, intermediate and advanced equipment (or recreational, "techreational" and technical, if you like) gear marketing set-up. I'd bring in some European brands, just to be different. I'd make sure the stores look classy, well kept and "comfortable." I'd also create a "cool" factor that local shops couldn't match.

I'd then put up a SERIOUS e-commerce site and sell most retail brands nationwide (world wide in a few years), with local delivery and service. You could buy on-line, but return to the local store. On-line and store price are the same, but with on-line "clearance" items. I'd then franchise the operation for the smaller "in-fill" market and sell it to existing dive shops willing to change.

I'd make certain each store had a nice pool and classroom facility. All staff that worked at the stores would be instructor or leadership and all full time. Everyone has multiple rolls. Then, I'd develop a few "e-teaching" approaches. First, I'd do all class work by video, standardized across all stores. Stream the course from the website. All classes canned with integrated graphics, video, etc. Then, I'd have a "live" Q&A hour multiple times each week. Integrate this by having a "live" streaming video session with an instructor, limited to say 10 students. Use a conference call system where the student calls in but the instructor answers across the web video link. Integrate the call system with the video link so everyone can "hear" everyone else (there will be a slight delay). Have multiple Q&A sessions daily, late into the night. Use west coast shops for late east coast USA instruction, using the 3 hour difference to our advantage. Make certain ALL instructors use the "standard" approach. Use an "on-line" testing format at the end of each class. Use a VPN system for accessing class materials and put up an on-line forum for updates, information and discussion, just like "Scuba Board." Only current students, staff and previous graduates get access to the board, it's "read only" for everyone else.

Knock out all the classroom first. Test the classroom stuff on-line. When finished, clear successful students for the pool. Set up pool sessions limited to 6 students for all shops at all times, with "skill packages" for each session. Offer a "long" and "short" format, maybe 6 and 2 hours, again standardized. Student "picks" pool session according to their schedule. Test at the end of each session building on skills so testing becomes the most complicated by the end of the last session. Offer a weekly "practice pool" session for additional help. Standardize student gear everywhere for entry level. Provide ALL gear for pool work. Completing all pool sessions advances you to openwater dives.

Just to make this interesting, "stratify" the shops. Devote 2 HRS of an "extra" pool session to the local diving environment. For example, introduce wetsuit use in the New York shop, while doing a pool/classroom discussion of tropical marine hazards at the Miami shop. The student gets to pick, based on the environment they plan to dive in. Offer the opportunity for students to complete pool and openwater training in the same time frame, say one week, if they want. They live in Atlanta, do the course on line, purchase a "pool and certification package" from the Miami shop (including flight, hotel, food, etc.), fly down for a long weekend and complete pool and cert dives. Or, they do the pool sessions at a local shop but purchase the certification package at a remote location. Or, they do everything local. Or, they drive instead of fly. Whatever...

Set up the openwater dives the same way, except expand offerings by having "standardized" certification entry-level dive packages offered at more exotic locations that use our "standardized" approach, but do not have a store. Maybe just a diveboat, maybe just a resort. Again, whatever...

Set up the entire system again for specialty and technical classes, only get MORE imaginative.

Use a nationwide enterprise management (IT) package to handle all data management activity so everyone is a "local" customer at ALL stores.

I won't get into the student gear marketing aspect using this concept, but do it in a fashion that isn't overbearing but at the same time produces results. Only sell quality and back it.

Most importantly, market our BRAND, the NAME of the store. Set high standards, commit to OUTSTANDING customer service, make people HAPPY. Blend "best practice" certification standards by meeting the minimum standard for an agency you chose, but pick more "good stuff" from others to go "above and beyond." When the new store becomes a nationwide leader in certifications and sales, the certification agencies and manufactures will come to YOU, not you to THEM. Margin will increase through discounts and volume, along with repeat customers and more sales.

Target the local store markets. Drive the small stores out of competition by offering prices, services and support they can't match (OUCH!). Look to regional market dominance. Sound familiar?

All this said, I doubt anyone has the money (or is willing to take the risk) to put it together. In fact, I know of only a few dive shops with multiple locations.

Anyone interested?
 
Thalassamania:
No, distance learning can work well, your program clearly does. There are lots of requirements for your personnel. This is not going to play play out that way.

Teaching diving is part professor, part coach, part mentor and part friend and I don't think that the division of those roles into separate chunks will improve diving instruction, especially since it will guarantee that only viable long term instructors will be folks like myself who only teach friends and the truly filth rich.

I don't understand why it is necessary that the person who conducts the online portion (academics) can't also do the pool and the OW portions of the class.
 
Thalassamania:
No, distance learning can work well, your program clearly does. There are lots of requirements for your personnel. This is not going to play play out that way.
.

How do you know?

Only certified instructors are allowed to teach the academic portions now. Why would that change?
 

Back
Top Bottom