PADI eBusiness - Atomic Online - 800 Pound Gorilla in the Room

[scubaaaronh]

All i know is i can think of a few PADI LDS's who are not going to receive this too well. I think i hear a few diastolic pressures peaking out right about now.

Yeah Jack and Jack wont be to happy up there. I know how both of them feel about the internet

 

[Maule]

The instructors, for the most part, aren't making any money the way it currently works. Do you envision this change helping or hurting this situation?

 

[Azza]

I really dont believe that they would do that. They are going to have to have trained professionals to handle it.

Not neccesarily. If they only open it up to OW to start with, the information in the course is not really rocket science so why bother having proper instructors teach the academics? They may start like that but I rckon after a few years they will streamline the budget and just use joe blow, or ranjit, off the street with a 5 day training course....probably trained via e-learning.

 

[Azza]

That is easier said than done. Here is a personal example of why I am all for online training. I live approximately in the middle between where I work and my LDS -- 30 minutes to work and 30 minutes to the dive shop. The problem is that they are in opposite directions which means that it takes me at least 1 hour to get from my office to the LDS.

Therein lies the problem. I usually don't leave my office until after 5pm and my LDS starts its classes at 6pm which makes it impossible for me to get there on time for classes. If they offered classes on the weekends, no problem, I would be there, but they don't, because they use the weekends for in-water training. So, I'm kind of SOL on most of the classes they teach.

I understand completely where you are coming from and agree this e-learning might help people in your situation. It's a shame your LDS didnt think too carefully about their sheduling. Mine did.

 

[Swan1172]

I understand completely where you are coming from and agree this e-learning might help people in your situation. It's a shame your LDS didnt think too carefully about their sheduling. Mine did.

I think part of the problem for me is that I am landlocked in Ohio and all of the guys that teach at the LDS are doing training part-time, usually after they get off work. That means they really only have evenings and weekends available to teach. They use the evenings for the classroom portion and the weekends for the diving portion.

 

[Azza]

I think part of the problem for me is that I am landlocked in Ohio and all of the guys that teach at the LDS are doing training part-time, usually after they get off work. That means they really only have evenings and weekends available to teach. They use the evenings for the classroom portion and the weekends for the diving portion.

I do similar sheduling myself but I also shedule weekend classes for those that have busy weeks however I am also an Independant Instructor so have a lot more flexibility. I also specialise in small classes and can tailor courses to suit. This way there is plenty of time for students to absorb info.
Then again I rarely teach OW anymore...

I am glad you did manage to get it done

 

[Thalassamania]

How do you figure that??
As far as the bookwork,
they can put more back into what was dumbed down, as a person is going to be able to work at it at their pace at home. They can put in more detail and make testing harder and longer. As far as an instructor teaching the class it is almost the exact same thing. except they type out what they have to say in modules that go along with the chapter. I know people retain more from reading than hearing the information being passed along. I say hearing because i am a student and at about two hours i am tired of listening and start hearing, and i know most students are that way, ask any student. As far as information it is easier to get just the information than a bunch of stories that don't mean squat to my education which you get in classroom settings.

As far as hands on,
An instructor still has to go through training and keep up on everything. They are just going to take out the classroom portion and put it online. As far as hands on your still going to have to do it locally with a shop/instructor and they will give their own briefings on how to handle situations.

This kind of thing is going on at all Universities around the country it works thats why there are more and more online classes. People tend to learn more in them if they are conducted correctly.

But I don't teach no stinkin' modules and I'd not send anyone I cared about to a course that did. But that's just the smallest part of the problem. See my earlier comments about retention and quality.

 

[pterantula]

The number one problem--by far--is an expectation that the course will have low standards and be easy. They don't expect to have to work hard, and they are shocked by the amount of time and effort they have to expend.

I recently completed an Associate's degree in Paralegal Studies. It totally kicked my *** (barely passed biz law, and I thought it would be my best subject; ended up ruling in case research and contracts though). As stated, properly thought-out online education is freakin' hard, actually allows for more time and one-on-one for rough spots, and is a fantastic option for those of us without the available time (or transportation) for classrooms.

Then the instructor needs to plan better. The average human brain starts switching off after 20 mins or so of lecture. A good instructor will keep his students attentitive by adapting his teaching methods to counter this.

I'm seeing alot of this presumed 'font-of-all-that-is-good-knoweldge' status of the instructors (all over the board); what I'm not seeing is how any of us can be sure than any instructors are any better or worse than a book or online module regarding diving academics (just the academics, not the physical diving).
It looks like every presumed flaw in e-delivery is accountable by a better, more flexible instructor - but what if that's not there? What if a student needs to go over everything twice and the instructor doesn't? Sure, the instructor then needs to be more patient and flexible, but how is that monitored or controlled? (And don't say "by being certified as an instructor from the agency" - that's a cheap non-answer.)

Having my experiences in online classes certainly puts me on that end of the argument, to be sure, but it's like anything else: knowledge comes from exposure.

 

[TCDiver1]

Yeah Jack and Jack wont be to happy up there. I know how both of them feel about the internet

Yep, that's two of em.

 

[pterantula]

The fact that only 50 indepenndent dive shop owners attended the online retainling presentation is proof of the perspective that many shop owners are burrying their heads in the sand about the reality of online sales. Furthermore I wonder if you guys in the panel had added Leisurepro (the other 800 lb gorilla) to your panel what percentage of scuba retail sales you would represent.

The only concern I have with regard to scuba "e-tailers" is that the field is actually a little different from the standard retail consumables arena. Internet research and shopping are not only here to stay, but growing by massive bounds - this much is indisputable.

But a diving reg is not a cellphone. A BC is not a sweater. A drysuit is not a pair of pants. I.e., your basic, everyday items (be they luxury items like plasma TVs or necessities like toothpaste and aspirin) can be flung back & forth with competitive pricing and customer service sealing the deal. Even if the pants you bought from Men's Wearhouse don't fit or match, you can just send them back and start over. Your life will not depend on them.

Certainly, experienced divers should have a wide-open marketplace through which to research, price and buy their gear - but I think the very freedom and laxity of the internet makes this tricky for everyone else. What's to prevent a bunch of people, uncertified, no experience, from buying all the dive gear they need online, getting the tanks filled from a friend at some industrial garage, going diving and all dying horribly? Not looking for strict liability here, just saying that it's potentially dangerous. (Sure, it can happen anyway with Craigslist and eBay, but manufacturers should be more wary when selling retail.)

Diving equipment needs to be fitted, the diver needs to be informed, and seeing the gear online or even in your bedroom is not the same as seeing it side-by-side with the comparable gear in the shops. For this reason, I think the dive shops are more necessary than any other industry's brick & mortar portals.

(Whew. Sorry....)