PADI Drysuit Course confusion REC vs TEC

[XS-NRG]

Hey everyone,

I'm about to take the PADI dry suit course and doing a bit of reading I've discovered something a bit shocking and would like to confirm the validity of this.

This is a quote from a website outlining the controversy between rec DS and tec diving with a DS:

...for the recreational dry suit course, PADI requires students to use the suit as the primary BCD. But if you take a look at their technical diving course materials, you’ll notice that PADI tells technical diving students they should put only enough air in their suit to prevent suit squeeze and keep warm. Then use their BCD/wing as a primary buoyancy device. This is the way you should do it, BTW. Why the two methods, PADI? Why not have the students learn the right way from the beginning?

Can some of the experts please confirm if this is true or not? Also if it is true where exactly in the tec materials does it mention to do it that way instead of the other? Having read this it certainly makes me question if I want to take this course or opt for the NAUI one or SDI one etc.

Is this true? Why the hypocrisy/confusion?

Thanks!

 

[elan]

I am no expert but I think the issue is over blown.
If you use smaller tanks like AL80 a shell suit and thicker undergarment which is 25-30 lb buoyant the tank buoyancy swing can be compensated by your lungs and the drysuit so you might not even need to use the bc. With bigger tanks or light undergarment it will be difficult to compensate with a dry suit.

In general the DS should only be inflated to the point that the undergarment works as designed. The rest goes to the BC.

I do not think it would make sense to switch the agency based on the factor you are concerned with. There is no police and you can inflate what you want. Just find a good instructor who can teach you well.

 

[Scott]

You have to remember that there are places in the world where a dry suit is taught in the OW course. I believe Alaska would be that way. I believe PADI feels it would be too much task loading for a new OW to vent a BC and trilam DS at the same time. I have yet to teach a DS during OW so I will say no more than that.

I will say, I can’t recall the last time I taught a rec dry suit course and required the students to use the suit as a BC. We talk about the reasons, I’ll demonstrate both methods, allow them to experiment in the pool and they then decide which works best for them. I can’t recall the last time during the checkout dives that a student used the suit.

If your instructor is going to use the DS as a BC talk with them and ask them why they teach the way they do. If you don’t care for the response, you can then make a choice, find a new instructor or agency as you have already mentioned.

From the course outline.
Bold emphasis is mine.

With this in mind, the philosophy of this course is to focus
on comfort diving in a dry suit. This means to show student divers what to consider
when planning to dive in a dry suit. Considering everything from choices of dry
suit materials, techniques for controlling buoyancy above and underwater, dressing
into and out of a dry suit, to maintenance and repair concerns.

1. BCDs for use with dry suits – depending on the type of dry suit you use,
it may be more efficient to control your buoyancy while underwater with
your suit. Regardless of how you control buoyancy underwater, you’ll
always use a BCD when dry suit diving.

 

[Thalassamania]

The answer is really quite simple, rec or tec you keep the suit at as close to a constant volume (usually known as a comfortable shrink wrap) as possible. So what's left? There's the gas that you are carrying which goes down over time, that should be compensated for with your BC or BP/W and the compression/expansion of the gas in your BC or BP/W which you need to deal with. To summarize: on descent you add gas to your suit to keep it constant volume. You add gas to your BC or BP/W to keep it constant volume. During the dive if you stay at constant depth, you vent your BC or BP/W little by little of take care of the weight of gas that is removed from the tank. On ascent you vent gas from your suit to keep it constant volume, this may be automatic with the right exhaust and exhaust valve setting. You also vent gas from your BC or BP/W to keep it constant volume

 

[XS-NRG]

Sure, I understand the concept behind it, but the whole question arises with regard to an inverted feet first runaway ascent. If you are using your BCD to control buoyancy then there should be little air to get into your leg cavity to cause you to rise, no? If you only used your suit for buoyancy then there is more air in the suit and more likelihood of problems with becoming inverted.

 

[Thalassamania]

You should have the minimum amount of air in your suit, commensurate with basic comfort, at all times, never more, and never less (ouch). This is the situation, added to which would be a tank at 500 psi that you should be weighted for. A single fill tank should add about 4 lbs, so you can either add 4 pints of air to your BC or, if you have the lung size for it, leave yrour BC empty and breathe a bit higher in your cycle. This becomes harder to do, for most people, with doubles (I have 14 pint lungs so I can) and thus when they, "go tech" (read that as dive doubles or larger cylinders) they need to use their BC to buoy up their remaining gas supply. Often, toward the end of their dive, they will empty their BC and shift back to using their lungs, when their gas supply is low.

 

[waterpirate]

Tec vs. rec, pish posh.
The standards in general are full of riddles. It is a choice for boyancy based on your kit and the enviroment you are diving in, nothing more nothing less. You will be the one to choose.

I would be more concerned with the quality of the drysuit instruction, not the application post course. The course is subject to poor instructors just like everything else. If I were paying for said course, I would want:
proper fitting
discusion of difrent undergarments
how to do a roll to right yourself
release the neck seal emergancy dump
inflator hose on and off
recover inflator hose
proper trim
what is wrong with ankle weights
use of fin keepers and gaiters
how to shop fins to help your trim
use diffrent fins to explor heavy fins and floaty fins
Finning techniques
video review of in water break dancing

a real class would include all of this and be around six hours in the pool and a dive if wanted. I have yet
to see a specialty class conducted this way. A final note, you get what you pay for and what you put in.
Eric

 

[ddmattos]

Tec vs. rec, pish posh.
The standards in general are full of riddles. It is a choice for boyancy based on your kit and the enviroment you are diving in, nothing more nothing less. You will be the one to choose.

I would be more concerned with the quality of the drysuit instruction, not the application post course. The course is subject to poor instructors just like everything else. If I were paying for said course, I would want:
proper fitting
discusion of difrent undergarments
how to do a roll to right yourself
release the neck seal emergancy dump
inflator hose on and off
recover inflator hose
proper trim
what is wrong with ankle weights
use of fin keepers and gaiters
how to shop fins to help your trim
use diffrent fins to explor heavy fins and floaty fins
Finning techniques
video review of in water break dancing

a real class would include all of this and be around six hours in the pool and a dive if wanted. I have yet
to see a specialty class conducted this way. A final note, you get what you pay for and what you put in.
Eric

This was the level of training I received from The Scuba Connection hear in New Jersey less the video. They are able to shoot video but i guess that would be extra. They also have a separate advanced finning course where they concentrate teaching trim and different finning techniques while shooting video in their indoor pool.

Back to the drysuit course..... They have a fitting and pool session where they go over all of the above mentioned and then a couple of real dives at Dutch Springs in PA. I was instructed in both techniques and choice the BC for buoyancy and just enough air in suit to relieve squeeze and chill. They really set a high bar for all their courses they conduct and really help their students reach that bar.

 

[waterpirate]

This was the level of training I received from The Scuba Connection hear in New Jersey less the video. They are able to shoot video but i guess that would be extra. They also have a separate advanced finning course where they concentrate teaching trim and different finning techniques while shooting video in their indoor pool.

Back to the drysuit course..... They have a fitting and pool session where they go over all of the above mentioned and then a couple of real dives at Dutch Springs in PA. I was instructed in both techniques and choice the BC for buoyancy and just enough air in suit to relieve squeeze and chill. They really set a high bar for all their courses they conduct and really help their students reach that bar.

Geeeesh the world is getting smaller by the minute. I spent a day in the pool with Wayne. lol For people on the east coast I would highly reccomend them as well. The op being from Canada is going to make that trip tough.
The important take away is that what they offer is the exception not the norm.
The drysuit class has turned into another money grab with little value for the diver. The sooner you get good instruction the quicker you get proficient.
Eric

 

[Jim Lapenta]

My course includes two or three two hour pool sessions, classroom of up to three hours, and a min of two open water dives. And I teach drysuit for squeeze, bc for buoyancy, and proper weighting. There is no need to assume students are too dumb to manage two buoyancy control sources. Or actually three since they already do two. Bc and lungs. Take time to properly explain things and they will not have a problem.

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