PADI DM Certification Requirements Question

[TMHeimer]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the replies.

I totally agree that experience is extremely important and the minimum certification requirements are just that. I don't agree that tech training is needed to lead dives to 30m however - the max that most recreational guided dives will go to. Even at that depth you need to know what you're doing; but tech experience is not necessary. In general, anyone who guides without supervision and without experience in a particular environment etc should probably not be in the water..

But really what I was asking was around the certification requirements specifically. Take it as read that to guide you should be experienced in what you're doing: definitely.

I think I agree. In taking the Deep course you experience rapid gas use, perhaps noticable narcosis, pony use, emergency air hung at 15', etc. What other info. that you'd learn in a tech. course would help the rec. DM? I would imagine one thing is you would get experience in more advanced gas planning which may be of help. What other things?

 

[Citizen]

But really what I was asking was around the certification requirements specifically.

Hello,

Any e.g. PADI Course Directors around who may be able to comment on this..?

Many thanks!

 

[tc]

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[Ste Wart]

Hello,

The current IM (2010 post DM course revision) indicates that for certification a candidate should have 60 logged dives (minimum) with experience in Deep, Navigation, and Night diving. This seems to be echoed in the 2009 IM before the changes were brought in.

The only dive requirement that changed was 40 instead of 20 to start IIRC

Is this mix a requirement or is there a level of flexibility in the type of diving that makes up the minimum number of logged dives? There is no reference on the student record (10147), application form (10144), or in the Guide to Teaching (2011).

Literally it is one dive in each. Normally accomplished as adventure dives on the AOW course. Check that student has done these and photocopy for your own files.

What approach (outside of gaining the experience) should be taken if someone is DM-certified but does not have this blend of deep, navigation, and night experience? Go back to the certifying instructor, contact PADI for advice, etc? Of course, this refers to Night as Deep and Navigation are required for AOW.

Many thanks

Considering you only need 1 dive in each. If a DM has not got this slight requirement then report their cert to PADI as the certifying instructor has violated standards.

 

[kaerius]

There's certainly something wrong in the training if the DM hasn't done deep, navigation and night dive... I know that when I did the course, all the DM trainees dived frequently, practicing all these aspects, usually in buddy pairs with eachother, taking turns leading, etc. This in addition to assisting on courses, and instructor led training. I probably led at least 10-15 night dives during the course, with navigation using a compass a necessity at the dive sites if you wanted to surface near the boat. I entered with the old bare minimum and finished with 100 dives, YMMV. Most of us either had, or did deep+nitrox before/during the course as well, and at least half of us did emergency O2 provider(should be required, and it's such a short course too, indeed it should probably be merged with either rescue course or EFR).

In hindsight, that was probably bare minimum as far as I'm concerned, and some just aren't ready maturity wise(one classmate of mine in particular comes to mind, who among other things did drunk diving).

DM should have at least 20 dives of experience in any conditions where he's leading divers(low vis, strong current, cold water, deep, night, wreck, etc), though that's just my personal opinion.

 

[gekodivebali]

We keep on having requests for people who want to do dm courses in 2 weeks! We turn them down but most ops do not

 

[kaerius]

Mine was 6 weeks, but only because I rushed to finish at the end because there was an IDC then, and I'd decided I wanted to be an instructor. Mind you I stayed and kept training after my instructor cert, I did a few more course assists and led some customers on fun dives on a completely voluntary basis.

My next dive trip was straight to work as an instructor, and I did around 300 DSDs(student count) in the first 3 months, shared with two other instructors(I ended up with 96 registered DSDs sent in to PADI), next destrination after that I started doing OW courses.

 

[TSandM]

Citizen, as a PADI Pro, you can call PADI and ask them for an interpretation of the rules, if you are unsure. My husband does this from time to time, and they are very helpful. Probably a much better way to get an accurate answer than hoping for someone who is actually knowledgeable to read the question here.

 

[TMHeimer]

There's certainly something wrong in the training if the DM hasn't done deep, navigation and night dive... I know that when I did the course, all the DM trainees dived frequently, practicing all these aspects, usually in buddy pairs with eachother, taking turns leading, etc. This in addition to assisting on courses, and instructor led training. I probably led at least 10-15 night dives during the course, with navigation using a compass a necessity at the dive sites if you wanted to surface near the boat. I entered with the old bare minimum and finished with 100 dives, YMMV. Most of us either had, or did deep+nitrox before/during the course as well, and at least half of us did emergency O2 provider(should be required, and it's such a short course too, indeed it should probably be merged with either rescue course or EFR).

In hindsight, that was probably bare minimum as far as I'm concerned, and some just aren't ready maturity wise(one classmate of mine in particular comes to mind, who among other things did drunk diving).

DM should have at least 20 dives of experience in any conditions where he's leading divers(low vis, strong current, cold water, deep, night, wreck, etc), though that's just my personal opinion.

Makes sense to me. I also agree with boulderjohn -- well 2/3-- It would make sense to me for a DM to have the Nav. and Deep specialties. I may disagree with the Night specialty if the DM were never to do night charters or assist with Night courses. I have that cert., but have done one night dive myself. I'm not sure what % of divers night dive. This gets back to that old PADI Master Scuba Diver mess regarding meaty courses vs. fluff. As TS & M says, it's best to call PADI. Some things can be vague, but at least it comes from the horse's mouth.

 

[kaerius]

I have that cert., but have done one night dive myself. I'm not sure what % of divers night dive.

I personally love night dives, on my last dive trip 10 out of 65 dives were night dives. This included some deep night dives(max 30m). Plenty of things you don't see during the day come out at night. Especially macro stuff, but in some places sharks, rays and pelagics come up to hunt at night(a good example of a famous dive site for this in the maldives is Maaya Thila in northern Ari Atoll, quite spectacular).