PADI DM Certification Requirements Question

[Citizen]

Hello,

The current IM (2010 post DM course revision) indicates that for certification a candidate should have 60 logged dives (minimum) with experience in Deep, Navigation, and Night diving. This seems to be echoed in the 2009 IM before the changes were brought in.

Is this mix a requirement or is there a level of flexibility in the type of diving that makes up the minimum number of logged dives? There is no reference on the student record (10147), application form (10144), or in the Guide to Teaching (2011).

What approach (outside of gaining the experience) should be taken if someone is DM-certified but does not have this blend of deep, navigation, and night experience? Go back to the certifying instructor, contact PADI for advice, etc? Of course, this refers to Night as Deep and Navigation are required for AOW.

Many thanks

 

[boulderjohn]

There are two issues here: meeting the minimum requirements and having a mix of experience that will serve you well in your role as a DM. To me, meeting the minimum requirements is the last thing to worry about. You really should be confident in your ability to dive and lead dives in a variety of environments.

If I were such a person, I would take an inventory of my experience and then do everything I can to get as much experience as possible in any areas that are perceived to be holes. If the only experience you have with deep diving and navigation is the AOW class, I would certainly still perceive them to be holes. It might be a good idea to try to get the specialties in all three areas, although that is not a requirement.

 

[TMHeimer]

Agree. The individual should make sure he/she is prepared to DM in whatever type of dives he signs up to assist with. Logistics, etc. I have not DMd any charters here because I am not familiar enough with most of the sites/wrecks. If I never do that I guess there's no need to really know the sites. Regarding Deep dives, I wonder about a DM who may lead a group down to 130' without at least having his own Deep cert.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Or better yet a tech cert of some type. At least Intro and better yet some deco training and experience.

 

[Dirty-Dog]

I'm with Jim on this one. If you're taking any degree of responsibility for the training and guidance of others, then it just makes sense that your own training and experience ought to be beyond the level you're taking your students. If you're at university studying for a BS, you're going to be studying under people with Masters and PhDs. If you're studying martial arts, you don't promote people to your own rank (in the systems I train in, you can only promote people to two ranks below your own, for example). If you're guiding students to depths where things such as accidental deco become a valid concern, then you probably ought to have at least some knowledge of how to handle deco. Of course, now we can debate if these ideals ought to be applied to the DM or only to instructor levels.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I'm with Jim on this one. If you're taking any degree of responsibility for the training and guidance of others, then it just makes sense that your own training and experience ought to be beyond the level you're taking your students. If you're at university studying for a BS, you're going to be studying under people with Masters and PhDs. If you're studying martial arts, you don't promote people to your own rank (in the systems I train in, you can only promote people to two ranks below your own, for example). If you're guiding students to depths where things such as accidental deco become a valid concern, then you probably ought to have at least some knowledge of how to handle deco. Of course, now we can debate if these ideals ought to be applied to the DM or only to instructor levels.

I do agree with you on this point; but I doubt it will be a popular idea here. It's probably overkill in terms of leading recreational dives. It would cut down on the number of people entering DM programs, which would be too bad.
Not everyone has a need or desire to pursue technical training. That being said, being trained beyond the level of diving you are guiding is a good thing. It would just be tough to implement that as a course prerequisite.

This will probably not be made a requirement with any agency due to their focus being recreational dive training. It wouldn't be practical (or necessary) for them to require technical dive training in order to pursue DM training.

I know that PADI and NAUI have Technical programs, but many other agencies do not (correct me if I'm wrong).
It wouldn't make much sense for a Recreational agency to have as their minimum requirement a technical dive certification with another agency.



Cheers,
Mitch

 

[Scott]

I know that PADI and NAUI have Technical programs, but many other agencies do not (correct me if I'm wrong).
It wouldn't make much sense for a Recreational agency to have as their minimum requirement a technical dive certification with another agency.

It may be easier to list the agencies that do not have a tec program.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I think the ideal is to have a tech cert from another agency than what your DM would be through. Would show an open mind and willingness to think outside the propaganda of one agency. I came up through PADI to DM. Got my first tech certs via NAUI. Crossed to the YMCA and then SEI. Future tech certs will be with TDI, maybe IANTD, and whatever program meets my needs that makes sense and has a solid foundation.

 

[boulderjohn]

If I had to take a wild guess, it would be that 90% of the DMs in the world do not have any kind of tech training.

 

[Citizen]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the replies.

I totally agree that experience is extremely important and the minimum certification requirements are just that. I don't agree that tech training is needed to lead dives to 30m however - the max that most recreational guided dives will go to. Even at that depth you need to know what you're doing; but tech experience is not necessary. In general, anyone who guides without supervision and without experience in a particular environment etc should probably not be in the water..

But really what I was asking was around the certification requirements specifically. Take it as read that to guide you should be experienced in what you're doing: definitely.