PADI AOW - Narcosis Training?

[TerryC]

Most AOW isn't really much training. That is why the dives are called "adventure dives." They are just experience dives with the warm fuzzy feeling of being with an instructor. It is questionable if one "deep" dive actually increases one's qualification to dive 12m deeper. The way 'deep' is traditionally taught with the whole calculation thing is kind of a silly exercise - so no - you didn't miss anything.
Cheers

If that is your experience then you need to find a better instructor.
AOW should introduce a number of new skills and improve on your existing ones.
The deep dive for my students consists of gas planning, (SAC rate calculated on an earlier dive), NDL planning, a full discussion about narcosis and the concept of deep stops, safe ascent rates and "rock bottom gas". Also you would be carrying a pony bottle as a backup air supply.
By the way, all the above is covered within the manual.
No silly bits and I don't do "warm fuzzy feelings"
Not intended to be harsh on you, I just want all to be aware that the good instructors out there do teach a very worthwhile course.

 

[EireDiver606]

Not intended to be harsh on you, I just want all to be aware that the good instructors out there do teach a very worthwhile course.

I’m sure you’re a great instructor but it’s not the instructor always who defines whether a course is bad or not.

It’s how the course is defined to be taught by the agency and their parameters. I know a few great instructors and a few years ago I asked one if they could do a one on one AOW course with me. He said there would be no point because it’s such a joke of a course. Deep diver course makes you bring a water bottle down to see the pressure buildup. And the wreck diver course/dive is just a complete joke.

 

[Bob DBF]

I know a few great instructors and a few years ago I asked one if they could do a one on one AOW course with me. He said there would be no point because it’s such a joke of a course.

The course is a joke if the instructor runs it as a joke. An instructor can teach or they can just be a glorified dive guide, doing a as little as possible and handing out a card. A great instructor should be able to give you a meaningful class.

I'm sure @Jim Lapenta can chime in on how a real AOW course can be run that will improve a divers skills.


Bob

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The real issue is understanding that you are impaired, the the amount of impairment you are experiencing, and what is needed to mitigate that impairment.

Great quote Bob. And I was hoping you'd say:

I was told by one of my mentors, the real problem with narcosis is not knowing you are narked, then finding out during an emergency that you are. That surprise may last long enough to kill you.

I really wish there was a good, safe, consistent way to demonstrate narcosis, as if we are at depth and narced, by focusing on a single task, we can perform quite well. But as you say, when there is an emergency, we are stressed, our respiration goes up and we create more CO2 which we all know is more narcotic than oxygen, then we have a problem.

Anyone's thoughts on how they've achieved a good, safe way to demonstrate narcosis?

 

[TMHeimer]

The course is a joke if the instructor runs it as a joke. An instructor can teach or they can just be a glorified dive guide, doing a as little as possible and handing out a card. A great instructor should be able to give you a meaningful class.

I'm sure @Jim Lapenta can chime in on how a real AOW course can be run that will improve a divers skills.


Bob

I agree, but I do think it does depend on the course itself to a certain extent, as well as the instructor. I took 6-7 specialties with who I considered a very good instructor years ago in Florida. I found the Wreck and Nav courses to be outstanding, with a lot of stuff being covered, included wreck penetration, mapping, quite a few different compass navigating techniques, etc.
OTOH, The Night course was pretty basic--for the most part a fair bit of stuff you could have figured out on your own. Same with the Deep Adventure dive I took during my AOW. Same instructor, and these are basic courses, not something like photography, where an instructor may or may not have extensive experience.

 

[Zef]

It is not just about self awareness but also awareness of signs of narcosis in your dive buddy. The person experiencing narcosis may not know it and the nature of it is such that a negative decision making loop can ensue....hense why it is called the rapture of the deep. It is kind of like someone buzzed on alcohol whose behavior is exhibiting changes but they don't recognize it yet.

I was driving with my youngest a couple years ago at Nemo33 In Bruxelles, While sitting on the bottom, she was able to answer some math problems I had written on a slate without any difficulty, but when I signaled for her to check and indicate how much air she had left, she reached for he bcd inflator hose and looked at it in earnest trying to read it like she was looking at her SPG. After a few seconds she dropped it and shrugged her shoulders in an "I don't know" fashion. It was funny and serious at the same time. We ascended to 10 meters where they have a cavern like swim through with an air pocket where one can stick their head out of the water and I explained what had happened...she had no clue and did not believe me at all despite the fact that it had just occurred a few short minutes prior.

-Z

 

[Storker]

The only times I have ever been aware of narcosis was when I realized I was being even more stupid than normal.

I'm having a similar, but not equal, experience when I'm narced. It's as if my brains are filled with cold molasses. The gears turn, but they turn at a slower rate than normal.

My main problem is that I've never been drunk, so it's unclear to me what the described "drunk" feeling is like. I felt the same at depth.

I've never felt "drunk" while narced, if we overlook the feeling I have if I try to do mentally challenging things after just one or two beers. I don't have a buzz, but my brain is definitely running on a lower gear.

The most popular mantra of deep air divers is that narcosis affects other people differently, and the same people different on different dives - except for me - and that I can learn to dive narced. Narcosis is real, and if one is being honest with themselves and is in tune with their bodies, one can consistently start to feel the beginnings of narcosis buzz within AOW deep depths. Only you can decide if diving narced is for you. I had completed many classes and hundreds of narced dives of denial before I finally decided to be honest with myself.

The insidiousness of narcosis is that as long as you're doing stuff you've done many times before, you usually don't feel it. It's when you have to solve a previously unknown situation - or something you haven't trained much for - that you realize that you're the intellectual equivalent of a large bovine. Case in point:

In my experiences, I have never felt anything like being drunk. In fact, I don't feel different at all. As I said, the only times I have realized I was suffering from narcosis was when I was aware enough of what was happening to realize I was being particularly stupid. I will describe the most glaring example so you will know what I mean.

I was inside a wreck in Chuuk, with a buddy and a guide. I was wearing a conventional regulator set, with the standard over the right shoulder regulator hose, octo under the right arm, and console clipped on the lower left. Our guide led us through a hole in the bulkhead, and I saw a small pipe hanging down from the upper right side. I very alertly saw that it would be easy to catch the regulator hose on it, so I resolved to be careful. My buddy went through next, and, sure enough,he snagged his regulator hose, pulled it down to free it, and went through. I went through, and I caught my regulator hose. When I felt the tug, I thought, "I've caught a hose. Which one is it?" When I figured out it was the regulator hose, I wondered if I should pull it up or down to get it free. At that point I thought, "These are really easy questions. I should know the answer to them. I must be narced."

So I would judge that I was seriously narced at that point, but I felt perfectly fine. If I had not snagged that hose, I would have reported that I had not had a trace of narcosis during the dive.

This is almost a textbook example. John didn't notice any indication of being narced until he had to solve a situation slightly out of the ordinary.

Recommended reading, a classic from the past: Narcosis -- insidious and subtle

 

[Storker]

I really wish there was a good, safe, consistent way to demonstrate narcosis

Chamber dive

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Chamber dive

Okay, A good, safe, consistent, practical way to demonstrate narcosis underwater.

 

[Storker]

If not underwater (which you didn't mention in the post I quoted), so at least a good, safe, consistent, practical way to demonstrate narcosis

It's the best idea I can come up with, so if you have a better one I'm all ears