PADI and the ADA

[Nirvana]

I share the concerns put forward by RJP, and I think his story (what happened to it, anyway?) illustrates the point well. I also wonder how effectively can a deaf DM assist during a class - will he be able to promptly understand what people are asking of him?

I think a deaf person can be a great diver, as communication below the water is mainly visual (and tactile on occasion), but instructors and DMs have a need to be able to effectively communicate verbally with divers/students on the surface.

If the DM candidate can communicate well enough with other people to perform satisfactorily bellow and above the water, then I think he should have no problem following a class unaided.

 

[RJP]

I share the concerns put forward by RJP, and I think his story (what happened to it, anyway?) illustrates the point well.

I edited the story down because I considered that I didn't have the victim's permission to get into the details. Do note that he is fine now, thankfully.

I also wonder how effectively can a deaf DM assist during a class - will he be able to promptly understand what people are asking of him?

Well, I would concede that a deaf, ASL-fluent DM might be a great help to an instructor in a class of deaf students. Though it might beg the question of who was really teaching the class. One could make the case that the instructor would really have no idea whether the translation was accurate, whether the DM understood the question, etc. An ASL-fluent DM would be a boon to a dive op that catered to deaf divers as well.

Unfortunately, a PADI DM card says you're a DM, not that you're a DM with the proviso that you really should only DM with deaf students or deaf certified divers.

 

[Michael McKinney]

I'm the deaf person that the OP is referring to. I just stumbled across this post while browsing the forums. I wasn't even aware that my interpreter/instructor was looking to be paid, I'll talk to him about it the next time I see him.

Yes, I'm undergoing DM training with this shop, taught by a Course Director and interpreted by OP. No, I'm not incapable of being a DM or an instructor just because I'm deaf like some of you are implying. Think outside the box. For example, I'm currently in touch with a dive shop in Roatan that is working with me to develop a method to enable me to teach any students, despite the fact I'm deaf. I'll write more about that later.

I'll answer various questions/concerns/objections in this thread.

I've taken DM eLearning course (and passed it), and has already read all materials, watched all videos, etc... but like Jim Lapenta said, if I stop right there, I'll be missing out on learning from somebody else's personal experience (such as CD teaching the courses) that the materials probably wouldn't be able to impart unto me. So I would like to take advantage of a classroom settings and learning from somebody else's experiences (including from OP.) In fact, during the last class, I picked up lot of information that I wouldn't have known otherwise from the materials. All of your personal experiences is as valuable as a textbook, and I WILL seek out your personal experiences whenever I run into you - it would enables me to learn from you and becomes a better diver/DM/instructor.



RJP - "How does one respond to a call for help? How would you conduct an effective rescue or response to a medical emergency."

1) When you loses one sense (hearing in my case), your other senses get stronger (in the case of deaf people, it's usually visual and tactile.) My peripheral vision and motion detection is far better than your typical person's. (Research example: Retina holds the key to better vision in deaf people) Deaf people also looks around their surroundings FAR more frequently than your typical person to make up for being unable to hear from their surroundings. So I would most likely quickly spot any emergencies, either underwater or on surface before you do (assuming you didn't hear it first.) I'm familiar with various warning signs that indicates emergency. Any DM or instructor that doesn't watch their students closely enough to spot any emergencies right when it happens is an idiot anyway, either deaf or hearing.

As I recall during the Rescue course, rescuing a diver underwater or on water surface doesn't requires the ability to hear. I can do "OK? OK." gesture or make a "Calm down" sign for panicking/tired divers. Unconscious divers won't even be able to hear you anyway.

After I bring the victim to the shore/boat...

2) Medical emergency - even though I'm deaf, I'm still able to do rescue breathing/CPR/AED/emergency oxygen. I learned them during Rescue and EFR, after all. It's also extremely unlikely that I'll be instructing only one student when the disaster strikes, so there will be somebody else that can use cellphone and call DAN/911/your local emergency number while I perform the rescue.



As for assisting an instructor during a class - right now, I have an interpreter that is also an instructor, I'll be assisting him. In fact, I'm doing a Discover Scuba Diving internship with him this Saturday. But when I'm assisting any other instructor, it's my responsibility to have a discussion with the instructor BEFORE the water session to find out the plan for that session, then follow the plan (and any hand signals that we agreed on beforehand.) After a while, I'll be experienced enough to be able to tell what's going on based on what the instructor is doing without being told. It's more work for me, but I do want to be a DM/instructor, so I'm willing to take on more responsibilities in order to be an effective divemaster/instructor. I would like to be self-sufficient. (The dive shop at Roatan has a different approach that I'll be writing about later.)


What I'm trying to say is that, yes, I'm deaf, but that doesn't mean I'm a mentally impaired person that is incapable of learning and adapting. I do have things I can offer to the scuba diving community that would benefits them. A couple of examples: Underwater communication is currently limited to around 20 hand gestures that you all learned during the OW course. I would like to offer a distinctive specialty that expands the underwater sign language to include various scuba diving-related signs and emergency-related signs, and more. I also would be able to introduce more deaf people to scuba diving, and to teach hearing divers how to dive with deaf people without any issues.

Scuba diving is one of my favorite thing to do, I'm very passionate about it, and I would love to become a professional scuba diver. I'm interested not only in being instructor and higher, I'm also interested in working to promote conservation of the ocean and to partake in research diving.

Give me the opportunity to show you that I'm just as capable as you all are when it comes to being a DM and an instructor.

Please think outside the box, and don't assume that because I'm deaf, I'm incapable of being a professional diver. That's all I'm asking.

 

[Nirvana]

Michael,

I am sorry you have felt offended by my previous post. However, nowhere did I state you are "incapable of learning" or "mentally impaired", as you put it. The thread was started by someone saying they had a student who needed assistance to be able to follow the DM class. This made me wonder if that person would be able to perform adequately as a diving professional.

Being an instructor or a DM, as I understand it, means not only being a competent sports diver, but also a competent communicator. They must understand what is asked or needed of them promptly, so that they can take the appropriate action in a effective and timely manner. This response may, in some cases, mean saving someone, as RJP illustrated.

However, these are only general concerns and not assessments on your abilities. You obviously think you can perform well in all those areas outlined, and apparently so do some scuba instructors that know you.

All the best,

Nelson Almeida

 

[RJP]

Michael, thanks for stopping by the thread and chiming in!

Hopefully you didn't read any of the comments posted above as implying that someone thought you were "a mentally impaired person incapable of learning." I also don't know if anyone was "questioning" whether you could be an effective DM as much as "asking the question" of whether you could. (Sounds semantic, I know.)

Everything you you say above is consistent with my knowledge of working with deaf people. (One of my colleagues of 5 years is deaf, and I have had several hearing-impaired clients over the years.) However, I think that in a case where the safety of divers under the supervision of a DM comes in to play, that having all senses "up and running" would be considered the ideal state. Yes, deaf individuals do often develop hyperacuity in other senses and often become more attentive/observant visually as well. However, I don't think that precludes the need to be able to hear somone calling for help.

I had posted some details of a recent incident - since removed in deference to the victim - where the presence of a hearing-impaired DM or instructor instead of myself and/or the instructor who was present could have easily ended in a fatality or permanent injury.

Thinking "outside the box" is all well and good, but that option is often only appropriate once all the mandatory things that are INSIDE THE BOX have been covered off on.

There are clearly many DM roles and situations that a hearing-impaired person could fulfill. Underwater, many of those may well be better fulfilled. But I think you would have to admit that there are a fair few roles where a hearing-impaired DM - and by extension the students/divers under their supervision - would be at a distinct disadvantage without additional resources supporting them. I would even wonder what the impact on prescribed staff/student ratios would be with the involvement of a hearing impaired DM or instructor. Would this differ if the students were hearing-impaired vs not?

There's a fair number of interesting questions here, don't you think?

 

[flots am]

RJP - "How does one respond to a call for help? How would you conduct an effective rescue or response to a medical emergency."

1) When you loses one sense (hearing in my case), your other senses get stronger (in the case of deaf people, it's usually visual and tactile.) My peripheral vision and motion detection is far better than your typical person's. (Research example: Retina holds the key to better vision in deaf people) Deaf people also looks around their surroundings FAR more frequently than your typical person to make up for being unable to hear from their surroundings. So I would most likely quickly spot any emergencies, either underwater or on surface before you do (assuming you didn't hear it first.) I'm familiar with various warning signs that indicates emergency. Any DM or instructor that doesn't watch their students closely enough to spot any emergencies right when it happens is an idiot anyway, either deaf or hearing.

I'm taking off my PC hat for a moment because it's too much work.

While you're welcome to take any class you want, including DM, I don't beleive you'll be able to work as a DM in any country with a functioning legal system.

As keen as your other senses are, there are emergencies that you will only notice in time if you can hear them happening.

This doesn't mean that nobody would hire you, but it does mean that if you have over-estimated your remaining senses and situational awareness, someone could easily die.

flots

 

[Michael McKinney]

I do admit and agree that there could be situations where my deafness could lead to some severe complications or death if I'm the only one instructing/DMing a group of students. To mitigate this possibility, I wouldn't want to be the only one working with the students - when I'm an instructor, I'll be taking a couple of DMs alongside with me (non-deaf), and when I'm DMing, I'll already be with an instructor and most likely at least one other DM. But this doesn't precludes me from performing my duties as a rescue diver if any emergencies does arises.

As an instructor, the only exception to the taking DMs alongside with me is if I'm only working with one or two students, where I'll be able to keep an eye on them the entire time.

I'm aware that PADI DM c-card and instructor c-card doesn't explictly assign any restrictions to me, but since I don't want to be responsible for any severe injuries or deaths due to being unable to hear emergencies that happened unseen, I'm assigning some restrictions to myself, regardless of what my card says. Some of restrictions you've already read above - I would be working in a team, rather than on my own. Another one is I'm probably never going to be working in a group that is very large.

I'm still learning about my limitations as a DM and an instructors, but I'm not going to simply give up on being DM/instructor because I happens to be born deaf.

RJP - is it a possibilty you could PM me the general background of the incidient so I'll be able to learn from it and be more aware of my limitations?



flots -

Toss the PC hat away, I don't really care about PC-ness.

As for your comment, "I don't beleive you'll be able to work as a DM in any country with a functioning legal system." Let me offer you some examples of deaf people working in the capacity of DM and higher in countries with a functioning legal system.

http://aquahands.com (Florida, USA, run by deaf IDC Staffs)
Silent Bubbles | Supporting deaf divers (Europe countries, deaf instructors)
ASL Deaf SCUBA Diving Courses (Utila, Honduras)
There's one in Australia too, but the name is currently escaping me.

 

[RJP]

RJP - is it a possibilty you could PM me the general background of the incidient so I'll be able to learn from it and be more aware of my limitations?

Done.

 

[koozemani]

This is definitely an interesting topic especially since it has strayed from the ops initial question.

I like the idea of a distinctive specialty expanding on the basic hand signals and have actually considered taking a asl class with my buddy to expand our ability to communicate underwater.

 

[Michael McKinney]

I've gotten the PM from RJP (thanks!), and I have to say, wow. I have a lot to think about, and I've gained a whole new perspective of what is required of a DM/instructor when it comes to situational awareness.

While I'm still very motivated to become a divemaster and above, I'm now much more cautious about my abilities and my skills, as well as being much more aware of my limitations.