Oxygen-clean stage bottle?

[Jaeger45]

Please bear with me, I'm slowly easing into the more technical aspects of diving.... I'm not looking for a substitute for formal training, just some guidance so I don't screw myself over while getting set up.

I'm in the process of putting together a stage/bailout bottle. With a mind towards advancing my training/skills, I'd like to put it together in such a way that it would be oxygen clean, so as my training progresses, it could be used with higher concentrations of oxygen for decompression uses. The plan would be to use this with only nitrox or ultraclean air pending further formal training.

Some controversy seems to exist.

I have a brand new/never used AL40 with DIN valve. Does this need to be freshly oxygen cleaned before use, or is factory clean considered oxygen clean with replacement of appropriate O-rings and Christolube as needed?

I have a brand new first and second stage HOG reg setup. However, I need to obtain an appropriate length of LP hose for the project. Is new hose considered oxygen-clean, or do I need to subject it to a procedure and/or have it cleaned?

Am I creating way to much trouble simply to avoid having to recurrently oxygen clean my reg setup? It just seems a waste to spoil a factory-O2 clean reg setup, only to have to turn around and repeat the process in 6 months or so.

Thanks!

 

[ajduplessis]

My new Luxfer AL40 arrived O2 clean from the factory and I used it as such, no issues or o-rings. You will have to "clean" the hose if not indicated so by the supplier. I would not fill O2 tanks with air even if ultra-clean, a deco bottle is a deco bottle. Use the equipment for the intended application, not multiple applications. You will make a mistake somewhere. Also mark the bottle according to the intended use and add you initials.

My 2 cents.

 

[Doc Harry]

Your cylinder and cylinder valve are O2-clean only if they are advertised as being O2-clean. Factory cylinders are generally not O2-clean. Factory cylinder valves are certainly not 02-clean because they usually have nitrile o-rings. An O2-clean cylinder will be washed to specs and the valve will be cleaned and rebuilt with O2-compatible (Viton) o-rings.

There is no such thing as "ultraclean" air. Check your terminology. Do you mean oxygen-compatible air (OCA)?

How do you know that your LDS provides OCA? What are the specs for OCA? What is the air analysis of your LDS, and does that analysis exceed OCA standards?

If you intend to have your LDS do partial-pressure fills in your stage cylinder, check with them to determine their requirements for PP fills. They are the ones at risk when doing PP fills. They may refuse to do PP fills unless they themselves performed oxygen-cleaning services on your cylinder, in which case you can drag your training cylinder through the mud until you get ready to take your course.

Regarding your LP hose: it is not O2-clean unless it is advertised as beng O2-clean. Given that it is the low pressure hose, some will argue that stringent O2-cleaning is not absolutely necessary.

Regarding your regulator, you will find that you decide how clean you want your regulator, since you're the one at risk. You decide what kind of air you run through your deco regulators and how clean you keep your stuff. You can cut corners if you want, it's your health and safety that is at risk.

I agree with ajduplessis. If you want a training stage bottle, then make yourself just that. If want a deco/stage bottle, then make yourself just that.

 

[Jaeger45]

Regarding your regulator, you will find that you decide how clean you want your regulator, since you're the one at risk. You decide what kind of air you run through your deco regulators and how clean you keep your stuff. You can cut corners if you want, it's your health and safety that is at risk.

I agree with ajduplessis. If you want a training stage bottle, then make yourself just that. If want a deco/stage bottle, then make yourself just that.

I hope I didn't give the wrong impression. I'm not trying to cut corners (at least I don't think so), nor do I wish to take risks with my own, or anyone else's, health. I'm looking to find out what I need to have cleaned for higher oxygen concentrations.

I dive in fairly cold conditions with a variety of partners. I was hoping to have a deco bottle that I could keep clean for eventual use with high oxygen percentages, but which I might actually be able to use the gas mix in the meantime in an OOA situation.

If oxygen compatible air (please excuse the terminology blunder) would likely be inadequately clean for this one-time transition, I'm probably better just having everything cleaned/rebuilt when I get around to more advanced classes. I should probably check with the couple of dive shops involved; my LDS will fill nitrox, but does not partial pressure blend. My nearest tech shop is several hours away.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Colliam7]

I'm probably better just having everything cleaned/rebuilt when I get around to more advanced classes.

YES. The questions about a) status of tanks and valves when they come 'fom the factory' and b) hoses have been appropriately addressed. Doc Harry provided a great summary. Your conclusion is the optimal one. There is little / no reason to have tank / valve / reg oxygen cleaned until you are ready to use gases that require O2 clean equipment. The idea of setting up a 'training' bottle is excellent. You can use an AL40, for example, as a slung pony bottle initially, then have it O2 cleaned when you are ready to pursue decompression dive training and diving. In the meanwhile, you can get a lot of experience diving with it, practicing gas switches from backgas to the bottle and back again (and working on efficiently deploying the second stage and then properly restowing the hose after use), practicing staging the bottle, etc. Ideally, this would be done with some initial guidance from knowledgeable divers to get you started off on the right fin.

 

[dannobee]

The "real" answer is that you'll need to have the tank and valve cleaned to whatever standards the person filling the tank requires, so ask that person.

For some people, a brand new tank and valve are sufficient. For others, you may never satisfy them that it's clean enough unless they personally cleaned it and you've always only filled it with them. If they see an analysis tag that isn't theirs, they could refuse to fill it. It is what it is.

If you look at the sticker on the tank from the manufacturer, it says, "do not partially fill this cylinder with oxygen" and "do not fill this cylinder with pure oxygen." FWIW. (They make oxygen tanks for the medical industry too, btw)

The bottom line: Talk to your usual guy who will fill your tank. There should not be a bunch of different "standards," and lack of trust that it was done correctly, but there obviously are.

 

[jimmy71]

My new Luxfer AL40 arrived O2 clean from the factory and I used it as such, no issues or o-rings.

My 2 cents.

Where do you get an O2 cleaned tank from a factory? I have never heard or seen of such a thing (does not mean it does not exist). They will say that most are nitrox ready up to 40%. I would love a link to a website that sells O2 cleaned tanks and mails them as such. I only know one site that will even mail the tanks with the valves on. All others are open and require a VIP.

Buying a already cleaned o2 tank could save some money. Most are listed as ok for nitrox and even then not PP blending

Jimmy

 

[kanonfodr]

I bought my AL40 brand new from my LDS, it was O2-cleaned by Luxfer.

Peace,
Greg

 

[jimmy71]

8. Question: Are Luxfer scuba cylinders ready for oxygen service when they leave the Luxfer factory?

Answer: New Luxfer scuba cylinders manufactured from January 1, 2000, until December 31, 2004, were cleaned for oxygen service at the factory and sealed with an oxygen-compatible cap before being shipped. However, starting on January 1, 2005, Luxfer began providing oxygen-clean scuba cylinders only by special order. Unless specifically ordered "oxygen clean," new Luxfer scuba cylinders will be cleaned for gas mixtures containing only up to 23.5% oxygen. (Of course, it will still be possible to have these cylinders cleaned for use with higher concentrations of oxygen by following the DOT-specified procedures cited above.)

Just found this on their website. I wonder the extra cost of getting one o2 cleaned from lux. Did you notice a higher price? I have to pay 30 for o2 cleaning if i recall correctly.

Thanks
Jimmy

 

[ajduplessis]

Where do you get an O2 cleaned tank from a factory? I have never heard or seen of such a thing (does not mean it does not exist). They will say that most are nitrox ready up to 40%. I would love a link to a website that sells O2 cleaned tanks and mails them as such. I only know one site that will even mail the tanks with the valves on. All others are open and require a VIP.

Buying a already cleaned o2 tank could save some money. Most are listed as ok for nitrox and even then not PP blending

Jimmy

Luxfer skipped our 40 and 80' O2 clean, not sure about the other sizes. We ordered a full container, I am not aware of a price def.