OWD license without a doctor's certificate?

[caruso]

Just looked at some of the paperwork for a LOB I am going on in a few weeks and a medical questionnaire is required when we get there. This will be a first for me since my last training course.

I wonder how many divers, who have been involved with the sport for say, the better part of 2 decades, who were originally in good health, but have since developed obesity, and/or diabetes and/or hypertension and/or a minor heart condition would check those boxes on the form, knowing at the very least it's going to be an inconvenience, might cost them a few bucks, and at worst it might cost them a liveaboard dive trip.

 

[gcarter]

I wonder how many divers, who have been involved with the sport for say, the better part of 2 decades, who were originally in good health, but have since developed obesity, and/or diabetes and/or hypertension and/or a minor heart condition would check those boxes on the form, knowing at the very least it's going to be an inconvenience, might cost them a few bucks, and at worst it might cost them a liveaboard dive trip.

I would suspect very few, unless they have taken care of it ahead of time to ensure whatever doctors certification they provided was satisfactory.

 

[dmaziuk]

I think disclosure is good, physician signature is nigh meaningless.

I don't want your medical questionnaire on file because tomorrow some GDPR rubbish comes along and I have to drop a chunk of change on team of lawyers going through all my paperwork checking each and every letter for compliance. I don't want your credit card number in my database because if tomorrow somebody breaks into the server room and steals a few hard drives, I'll have to call Visa fraud department and talk to them, in addition to dealing with the break-in.

Where I work anyone with half a clue wants to collect and be responsible for as little as absolutely necessary to accomplish their mission, and no more. So it's not that disclosure is universally bad, it's that when somebody asks you to disclose stuff they don't really need that makes it highly questionable.

 

[KenGordon]

I don't want your medical questionnaire on file because tomorrow some GDPR rubbish comes along and I have to drop a chunk of change on team of lawyers going through all my paperwork checking each and every letter for compliance. I don't want your credit card number in my database because if tomorrow somebody breaks into the server room and steals a few hard drives, I'll have to call Visa fraud department and talk to them, in addition to dealing with the break-in.

Where I work anyone with half a clue wants to collect and be responsible for as little as absolutely necessary to accomplish their mission, and no more. So it's not that disclosure is universally bad, it's that when somebody asks you to disclose stuff they don't really need that makes it highly questionable.

Following GDPR we only record that a disclosure of either good health or a doctor’s certification has been made, we no longer keep the forms. That suits me as I cannot have an opinion on what it means for a box to be ticked.

 

[KenGordon]

The same could be said for lawsuits for dive instructors who accept the diver's word they are fit to dive. The system isn't actually doing anything, that's the point. It's trying to shift blame further away with the hopes the lawsuit won't land on them.

Scuba Diving Lawsuits/Legal: Wrongful Death, Waivers, Negligence discusses common dive lawsuits, and it seems that as long as we sign a waiver, it is very difficult to hold even a negligent instructor or DM responsible.

Alert Diver | Legal Liability in Diving general info
Why Divers Fail to Disclose Medical Conditions: Undercurrent 10/2009 general discussion about failing to disclose and why.
https://www.statesmanjournal.com/st...ton-woman-files-wrongful-death-suit/86148286/ Doctor being sued
Lying About Your Health Could Be Lethal: Undercurrent 01/2010 contrary opinion from mine - somewhat. I see a difference between disclosure and requiring a physician signature. I think disclosure is good, physician signature is nigh meaningless.

So this one is interesting Lying About Your Health Could Be Lethal: Undercurrent 01/2010 but, on the surface, it sounds like the diver was not fit and the doctor ignored the PADI recommendations. So either the doctor was “doing the bloke a favour” or was not sufficiently knowledgeable on the subject. That kind of sounds like the doctor is due some blame.

 

[caruso]

From the above article:

"When Undercurrent asked readers about whether they disclose medical conditions to dive operators, a surprising number of you replied that you didn’t, for fear of an operator not permitting you to dive."

"Because so many of you readers admit that you are untruthful on the medical release.."

Most divers with serious medical conditions aren't thinking about the risk and liability to other divers, they're thinking they want to go diving. Period.

 

[tursiops]

I wonder how many divers, who have been involved with the sport for say, the better part of 2 decades, who were originally in good health, but have since developed obesity, and/or diabetes and/or hypertension and/or a minor heart condition would check those boxes on the form, knowing at the very least it's going to be an inconvenience, might cost them a few bucks, and at worst it might cost them a liveaboard dive trip.

Those same people likely (or should) get an annual physical, at which getting the form signed costs nothing additional. Sure, some doctors won't sign, but in my two decades of teaching experience that is the exception, not the rule.

 

[caruso]

Those same people likely (or should) get an annual physical, at which getting the form signed costs nothing additional. Sure, some doctors won't sign.

Most people don't get annual physicals. I think guys are worse when it comes to routine checkups, some go for many years and some never go unless they've got a problem.

Some doctors won't sign off. That's clearly more than enough for most divers to lie on medical forms because they aren't going to risk being denied.

 

[BRT]

So this one is interesting Lying About Your Health Could Be Lethal: Undercurrent 01/2010 but, on the surface, it sounds like the diver was not fit and the doctor ignored the PADI recommendations. So either the doctor was “doing the bloke a favour” or was not sufficiently knowledgeable on the subject. That kind of sounds like the doctor is due some blame.

As any doctor is who certifies that someone is "safe" to dive. Too many unknowns.

 

[dmaziuk]

Following GDPR we only record that a disclosure of either good health or a doctor’s certification has been made, we no longer keep the forms.

Somebody should call the World RSTC and tell them about Europe...

That suits me as I cannot have an opinion on what it means for a box to be ticked.

+1.