Overhauling regulators

[DA Aquamaster]

Net Doc & Genesis...you need to re-read what I said regarding diving in a wreck with someone who did their own reg maintainence. What I said was that I would not want to be in a wreck with a diver who had the minimal knowledge level that the diver in the example obviously had. Anybody who thinks anair pocket in a wreck at depth is not "compressed" air has some problems with the concept of pressure and would propbably not be able to tell ambient pressure from intermedate pressure.

I have dove in overhead environments for years with regs I have worked on because I prefer it that way and know exactly how the reg is performing. I also agree that there are divers who can do a very credible job on their regs, but that is not the same as saying manufactures should let any old diver with an OW cert work on thier own regs.

When an individual chooses to work on their own regs and get parts through grey or black market sources, they are assumng the risk for that activity. It is entirely different if they are getting the parts with manufactuer support as the manufacturer then must assume some of the risk.

Frankly I am repeating myself, the arguments are getting a little obtuse in here. The mis-quoting that is occurring inorder for people to try to make their points is BS. As far as I am concerned, the information needed for people to form their own opinions is here, so screw it, I'm done. I am nt going to change your opinions an you are not going to change mine.

I woudl suggest though that if you don't like the situation in this country regarding product liability laws that you call your congressman and see if you can get it changed. Blaming the techs, the LDS owners or the manufacturers for the current state of affairs in reg servicing is not going to help as long as they remain at risk of getting sued. Crabbing about it may make you feel better but it really will not do anything productive to change the situation.

 

[quimby]

Your right DA your not going to change your opinion etc....
What is you view on Abyss and Diverite selling parts to any ole diver.

 

[Genesis]

When an individual chooses to work on their own regs and get parts through grey or black market sources, they are assumng the risk for that activity. It is entirely different if they are getting the parts with manufactuer support as the manufacturer then must assume some of the risk.

Why?

An O-ring is an O-ring, provided the specs are the same. Indeed, most of the time you can even do BETTER than the manufacturer - an example are Viton O-rings where EPR ones are demonstrably superior, particularly for dynamic applications.

Oh, they're a hell of a lot cheaper when not bought from SP or one of the other "manufacturers" too.

The only proprietary part in a reg that would need routine replacement is the seat (LP or HP)

 

[The Chairman]

You set up two seperate premeses in your post... you did not want to "see" anyone who did not understand the concept of depth vs compressed air... AND you did not want to "see" someone who who worked on their own reg.

I really would not want to see that particular diver in a wreck and I certainly would not want to see a diver in a wreck with a reg they themselves actually worked on.

If I misunderstood you, it was due to the poor wording of your post and nothing else.

As for someone not counting breathing that dead air as "bottom time", I would actually take it one step further. ANYONE who breathes entrapped air is putting their health in jeopardy irregardless of how they manage their bottom time. Asphyxia and CO poisoning are two possibilities that immediately come to mind and there are more. But what does being a competent/incompetent wreck diver have to do with servicing a regulator?

Parts is parts... I have seen too many aftermarket parts in the automotive field out perform their dealer counterparts. GM makes great brake linings... but Wagner makes them far better. That's my opinion and you have your own.

As for who should work on regs... that is up to the consumer. There is no liability for a manufacturer when a consumer takes matters (and parts) into their own hands. The only thing they might lose is revenue to the LDS. They are only protecting their monopoly... nothing more. Contrary to their cries of wolf, the world will not end if they make their parts more available to the common diver.

 

[pipedope]

When the mfg says you must have reg serviced by an 'authorized' service center and by a trained tech at that center the mfg is vouching for both the shop and the tech. This makes the liability for them GREATER than if they just sold the parts.

If they sell parts directly to me then they are only liable for the parts. I am responsible for my work.

Of course you can always just take the tech out for a dive right after he (she) has worked on your gear.
BTW make them use your gear.

I used to work in a FBO at my local airport. We had the policy that the mechanic who worked on a plane was on that plane for its first flight after the work was done. Kept the guys sharp.

 

[crispos]

I like that pipedope. The mechanics had to eat their own cooking.

I see the rantaholics are still at large.

Where the hell is homosassa?

 

[pipedope]

is about 12 miles south of Crystal River and about 55 miles north of Tampa.

 

[jamiei]

the fact is guys, there are a lot more a$$hole, lawsuit happy divers than there are guys working on thier own cars. The guys that work on their cars are the divers that wouldn't sue anyone. Sadly, as I've come to see more and more this past year, a large majority of divers are just plain a$$holes. More divers than not have too much money and are just jerks plain and simple. A great number of divers are rude, careless, and dangerous. They're the guys that almost run you off the road because they're in such a hurry and are too self involved.

You don't have to have money to buy your pads around the corner. You have to have a little money to be a serious diver or love it enough to sacrifice in other areas as many of us do. Diving is a sport filled with macho, errogant jerks. Much more so than any other sport I've ever been involved in. In the same way that careless hunters threaten their sport and tarnish its reputation, so are a great number of divers by damaging reefs, poorly planning dives and becoming a statistic, and threatening to sue everything in site... The problem is that every cool wanna be tech diver around wants to say he services his own equipment. These same guys are the ones that can't change their oil. They also don't try to change their oil... but since they're such cool, jerk-off tech divers they are inherently able to repair their regs. To not do so would crush their ego.


There are a few people on this board that come to mind that are the jerks that would sue at the drop of a hat and I'm sure you know who you are deep inside although you'll never admit it to yourself. These folks have just as much to do with the situation as the manufacturers and lds in my opinion. Oddly enough, these same people post right along with everyone else against the evils of dive manufacturers. I guess they're just blind to their own involvement.

Diving is a great sport and I love it. There are a lot of wonderful people involved in diving and a great number of them on this board. The lure of diving unfortunately also attracts many people that can almost make you ashamed to call yourself a diver.

 

[RiverRat]

jamiei once bubbled...
the fact is guys, there are a lot more a$$hole, lawsuit happy divers than there are guys working on thier own cars.

Wow! I'm a fairly new diver and so far have not met any of these yet (well maybe just one on our last dives on 12-11-03 (Thurday)). This guy's first comment in the van was "Sooooo, is this gonna be a dead group or what????? Anyway I was blessed with a GREAT dive buddy for the week so I did not pay too much attention to Mr. Perfect! This was my first "real" dive trip after certs. out to Grand Cayman and I must say at least 99% of the divers I met were GREAT folks to deal with. I started my dives with 15# (way to heavy) and by mid-week I was diving 3# on the belt, using NO AIR in my wing and neutrally buoyant the whole dive(s) using lung volume to glide over the reefs! And I owe all this to many SB folks that helped me get to this stage as well as the divers I met while out with Fisheye divers and River's Sport divers. And FYI, I do plan on servicing my own regs. Not to be cool, but to be safe and because I choose to be totallly involved in all aspects of diving. Just wanted to jump in there, now back to.............................................................................................

 

[Ice Blue]

I work in Fire Proteciton Sprinklers our code book the year I was born was a 1/4" thick. It is now 3-1/2" thick do to disaters and changes in the industry. Unfortunally things don't change unless something goes wrong or somone dies. Sad thought.