Can someone please tell me why a regulator has to be serviced annually?? And please, not for warranty purposes either, I don't see that as being a reason to service them, I think it is a shame. If they are made well, why should they be looked at yearly, especially if most reg tecs I have come across aren't qualified to begin with.
Overhauling regulators
- Thread starter diverrick
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
R
redacted
Guest
for the diver who dives salt water and then throws his gear in the corner of the garage till next week.
But the guy who takes good care of his gear should expect at least 2 and maybe 5 years or more of troublefree service from a quality reg. But part of that care is looking at the reg often. I put mine on an IP gauge to check the health of the 1st stage. Every time I dive I'm checking functioning. If I suspect performance I'll put it in the sink and check cracking pressure. A year between these types of checks is too long. So, for the guy who is totally dependend on the LDS, an annual trip is probably as frequent as most will tollerate. I usually go 3 to 5 years before a complete teardown and service on most of my regs. But I'll tweek them a little quite often.
But the guy who takes good care of his gear should expect at least 2 and maybe 5 years or more of troublefree service from a quality reg. But part of that care is looking at the reg often. I put mine on an IP gauge to check the health of the 1st stage. Every time I dive I'm checking functioning. If I suspect performance I'll put it in the sink and check cracking pressure. A year between these types of checks is too long. So, for the guy who is totally dependend on the LDS, an annual trip is probably as frequent as most will tollerate. I usually go 3 to 5 years before a complete teardown and service on most of my regs. But I'll tweek them a little quite often.
blacknet
Contributor
Hello,
Several of you have voiced discontent over 'trained' shop monkeys screwing up expensive scuba gear. I have had several bad experiences, more bad than good, when dealing with shops on stuff like this. Over the years I have collected repair manuals and put them on my site. Some companies are now following suit and posting repair guides/manuals/parts on their web site.
I urge every diver to learn about his/her equipment and it's the little things here and there that makes things easier in the long run.
Ed
Several of you have voiced discontent over 'trained' shop monkeys screwing up expensive scuba gear. I have had several bad experiences, more bad than good, when dealing with shops on stuff like this. Over the years I have collected repair manuals and put them on my site. Some companies are now following suit and posting repair guides/manuals/parts on their web site.
I urge every diver to learn about his/her equipment and it's the little things here and there that makes things easier in the long run.
Ed
You can get 3-4 years out of a piston first stage as long as it is properly rinsed and used with quality air. The way standard and balanced piston regs are designed, the piston is not in contact with the seat when the air pressure is off and it will not wear the seat out as quickly. However annual service is a real asset in determining if something is in fact wrong in the reg, and if something is, the cost of an annual service is real cheap insurance.
Second stages are a different story. Most of these leave the orifice knife edge in contact with the soft rubber seat with the result that it will lose the ability to form a tight seal relatively quickly and will require maintainence.
Do it yourself maitainence is not all that hard if you know what you are doing and get some training. The ordinary second stage comes in two basic flavors - single adjustment and dual adjustment. Regs like the balanced G-250 are single adjustment regs as only one internal adjustment, the orifice, controls spring pressure and indirectly, lever height. The "simpler" downstream design is a dual adjustment reg as both the orifice adjustment affects spring pressure as does the nut on the end of the poppet which also affects lever height.
I get really concerned when I hear people talking about bending levers to control lever height. If the first and second stages are properly adjusted in the proper order starting with correctly setting the IP in the first stage and all the parts are in tolerance, no bending is required. If you think you need to bend something, don't, as you are just treating a symptom of a more serious problem somewhere else and the reg really needs to be worked on by someone who knows what they are doing.
I also get a little concerned about people who just read a schematic or manual on line and think they know what they are doing. Someone with very good mechanical aptitude and a thorough awareness of the engineering and physics involved may actually know what they are doing, but most divers will not. It is always a far better idea to get some training from someone who does know what they are doing as some of the techniques required are not convered in a service manual and require a hands on approach to teach properly.
Of course to be both fair and honest, a lot of factory approved techs are good at assembling the parts but never develop a real feel for the whole systems approach that is needed to do a really good job on regs. Most techs also require a good deal of experience to actually get good at it and the new guy in the shop who recently read the manual, did the workbook and attended a repair clinic may still not know a whole lot or know a whole lot about your specific regulator.
Second stages are a different story. Most of these leave the orifice knife edge in contact with the soft rubber seat with the result that it will lose the ability to form a tight seal relatively quickly and will require maintainence.
Do it yourself maitainence is not all that hard if you know what you are doing and get some training. The ordinary second stage comes in two basic flavors - single adjustment and dual adjustment. Regs like the balanced G-250 are single adjustment regs as only one internal adjustment, the orifice, controls spring pressure and indirectly, lever height. The "simpler" downstream design is a dual adjustment reg as both the orifice adjustment affects spring pressure as does the nut on the end of the poppet which also affects lever height.
I get really concerned when I hear people talking about bending levers to control lever height. If the first and second stages are properly adjusted in the proper order starting with correctly setting the IP in the first stage and all the parts are in tolerance, no bending is required. If you think you need to bend something, don't, as you are just treating a symptom of a more serious problem somewhere else and the reg really needs to be worked on by someone who knows what they are doing.
I also get a little concerned about people who just read a schematic or manual on line and think they know what they are doing. Someone with very good mechanical aptitude and a thorough awareness of the engineering and physics involved may actually know what they are doing, but most divers will not. It is always a far better idea to get some training from someone who does know what they are doing as some of the techniques required are not convered in a service manual and require a hands on approach to teach properly.
Of course to be both fair and honest, a lot of factory approved techs are good at assembling the parts but never develop a real feel for the whole systems approach that is needed to do a really good job on regs. Most techs also require a good deal of experience to actually get good at it and the new guy in the shop who recently read the manual, did the workbook and attended a repair clinic may still not know a whole lot or know a whole lot about your specific regulator.
they don't care about whether you live or die either. That is probably the greatest contributor to having it done right or not. Someone who cares will figure it out, for everyone else it's "good enough for who it's for" and out the door.
Thanks for the post DA, it was well done.
I will admit to being one of those guys that think just about anyone who can tie a shoe lace, can work on their own reg.
This may be an over-exaggeration, but it's what I truly believe. Most DIY's don't have to be able to work effectively on 10 different regs, but only 2 1st and 2 2nds tops. Just their own gear.
They are also going to learn just how I learned. They're gonna have a schematic, and they're gonna tear it apart. Hoping they don't break anything all the while.
Assuming they've gotten that far. The "learning" comes from looking at the ports, and following the gas flow from HP to LP and seeing how it all works internally. This not only gives you an understanding on HOW it works, but it also allows you to trouble shoot that particular reg if need be in the future.
As far as screwing up the 2nd stage settings. This again, since almost none of us have access to the "proper" training, it will be done by guess or by golly. Lets face it, if it breathes like a brick or won't crack for 2ft underwater, there's a problem, so figure out what you've done wrong!! I've been there. It's called learning.
And yes, I must also add for those of you squirming in your seats, ALL of this was learned while I was still at my kitchen sink!! Proper testing will show your errors LONG before you ever hit the water with the stuff.
It's not the ideal way to learn, but that ain't our fault. It's bascially the only way for most of us.
I still get reamed by my shop for doing my own regs. They ask how I got this and that apart, well, I used the proper tool I bought from Peterbuilt I tell them!! They just get pissed that P/B and others will sell the tools to the DIY'r.
They swear all us "Outlaws" are gonna kill ourselves. I just laugh, as their own reg tech has confided in me that I can and will do a better job than the shop ever would, for the simple reason that it's my reg, and I have all the time in the world to do it as meticulously as possible.
Some people dilute themselves into thinking no-one but shop trained can repair a reg properly, and it's usually the shop employees.
I will admit to being one of those guys that think just about anyone who can tie a shoe lace, can work on their own reg.
This may be an over-exaggeration, but it's what I truly believe. Most DIY's don't have to be able to work effectively on 10 different regs, but only 2 1st and 2 2nds tops. Just their own gear.
They are also going to learn just how I learned. They're gonna have a schematic, and they're gonna tear it apart. Hoping they don't break anything all the while.
Assuming they've gotten that far. The "learning" comes from looking at the ports, and following the gas flow from HP to LP and seeing how it all works internally. This not only gives you an understanding on HOW it works, but it also allows you to trouble shoot that particular reg if need be in the future.
As far as screwing up the 2nd stage settings. This again, since almost none of us have access to the "proper" training, it will be done by guess or by golly. Lets face it, if it breathes like a brick or won't crack for 2ft underwater, there's a problem, so figure out what you've done wrong!! I've been there. It's called learning.
And yes, I must also add for those of you squirming in your seats, ALL of this was learned while I was still at my kitchen sink!! Proper testing will show your errors LONG before you ever hit the water with the stuff.
It's not the ideal way to learn, but that ain't our fault. It's bascially the only way for most of us.
I still get reamed by my shop for doing my own regs. They ask how I got this and that apart, well, I used the proper tool I bought from Peterbuilt I tell them!! They just get pissed that P/B and others will sell the tools to the DIY'r.
They swear all us "Outlaws" are gonna kill ourselves. I just laugh, as their own reg tech has confided in me that I can and will do a better job than the shop ever would, for the simple reason that it's my reg, and I have all the time in the world to do it as meticulously as possible.
Some people dilute themselves into thinking no-one but shop trained can repair a reg properly, and it's usually the shop employees.
I wouldn't dream of doing my own reg work, although I am sure I could get the manuals and figure it out. I am as handy as the next person and regularly do my own (non-critical) auto work.
I have opened up my second stages (Scubapro and Poseidon) because they ARE so simple mechanisms and I read one guy cleaned out the sand from his second stage while still diving. But the 1st stage, I would be worried to mess with it unless really sure I wouldn't cause it to lock up at depth. Just like I won't do my own brake jobs. I used to do my own brake jobs, when I had cars that had drum brakes. Now, I have fancy 4 wheel ABS and disks, etc. I figure if you only do something once or twice a year, you are more liable to make a mistake than the person doing maybe a hundred plus a year.
I did consider taking the Poseidon tech course but I couldn't make the drive to Quebec. Did anyone go to that? Was it good?
I remember a friend helped me put a new clutch in when doing a I'm stupid job in San Francisco. Outside of DesMoines, my I'm stupid froze. I had to drive all the way to Canada without taking a pee stop. So ditto, don't let your "expert friend" fix your regs either.
The reason for the sloppy work could also be because people would rather buy used regs on e-Bay for peanuts and then balk when asked to pay a decent price to have them overhauled. At my LDS it was only $40 last year and to me, that doesn't cover the cost of repair by far, because it takes at least an hour to do a proper job. I had my eyes checked recently (yes, I am going blind and will soon need a bifocal mask) and for 15 minutes it cost $80.
To avoid lousy work: my LDS has TWO good service people, the one who usually does mine, incidently, is also an aerospace inspections mechanic. I usually watch him do it so I can see what is going on. They put the used parts in a baggy so you can see what was changed. They also set the IP on the reg on a flow bench (I don't have one). But it is true, they are often rushed due to overwork/underpay. So, as was suggested, I pool test my regs before use and do a conservative dive before going deeper.
I have opened up my second stages (Scubapro and Poseidon) because they ARE so simple mechanisms and I read one guy cleaned out the sand from his second stage while still diving. But the 1st stage, I would be worried to mess with it unless really sure I wouldn't cause it to lock up at depth. Just like I won't do my own brake jobs. I used to do my own brake jobs, when I had cars that had drum brakes. Now, I have fancy 4 wheel ABS and disks, etc. I figure if you only do something once or twice a year, you are more liable to make a mistake than the person doing maybe a hundred plus a year.
I did consider taking the Poseidon tech course but I couldn't make the drive to Quebec. Did anyone go to that? Was it good?
I remember a friend helped me put a new clutch in when doing a I'm stupid job in San Francisco. Outside of DesMoines, my I'm stupid froze. I had to drive all the way to Canada without taking a pee stop. So ditto, don't let your "expert friend" fix your regs either.
The reason for the sloppy work could also be because people would rather buy used regs on e-Bay for peanuts and then balk when asked to pay a decent price to have them overhauled. At my LDS it was only $40 last year and to me, that doesn't cover the cost of repair by far, because it takes at least an hour to do a proper job. I had my eyes checked recently (yes, I am going blind and will soon need a bifocal mask) and for 15 minutes it cost $80.
To avoid lousy work: my LDS has TWO good service people, the one who usually does mine, incidently, is also an aerospace inspections mechanic. I usually watch him do it so I can see what is going on. They put the used parts in a baggy so you can see what was changed. They also set the IP on the reg on a flow bench (I don't have one). But it is true, they are often rushed due to overwork/underpay. So, as was suggested, I pool test my regs before use and do a conservative dive before going deeper.
Crispos:
My 1st stage is easier to overhaul/clean/repair (Mk20-25) than my 2nd stage (G250HP).
As for brakes on a car?? Disk brakes (fronts) are far easier than drum brakes on just about any car!
But this does show the stupidilty of it all. You can go and buy brakes for your car and fudge it up all you want, and then go and kill not only yourself, but 6 other people on the road, at 60MPH in each direction..but NOOOOOOOO you can't touch your own Reg!!! It's too compicated.
It's hilarious.
There is no reason for sloppy work, regardless of where you bought the reg.
My 1st stage is easier to overhaul/clean/repair (Mk20-25) than my 2nd stage (G250HP).
As for brakes on a car?? Disk brakes (fronts) are far easier than drum brakes on just about any car!
But this does show the stupidilty of it all. You can go and buy brakes for your car and fudge it up all you want, and then go and kill not only yourself, but 6 other people on the road, at 60MPH in each direction..but NOOOOOOOO you can't touch your own Reg!!! It's too compicated.
It's hilarious.
There is no reason for sloppy work, regardless of where you bought the reg.
Yeah DeepScuba, but who is your estate gonna sue?
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37780
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37780
Similar threads
