DiveGolfSki
Contributor
Dunno but outriggers have been used for centuries in Southeast Asia, Hawaii, etc. Don't see why they would hurt the stability of a kayak. If a canoe can take pigs and goats, why not dive equipment.
Outriggers?
- Thread starter SIR VEYOR
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When you put outriggers and floats on the boat is no longer a kayak.
It my be a trimaran or catamaran or something else but not a kayak.
A kayak gets the majority of it's seakeeping ability from the skill of the paddler and it's ability to move with the waves and recover from a capsize. With the outriggers it cannot move nearly so easily and becomes harder to flip but nearly impossible to right once flipped.
Also, you need to think of the forces and rules that operate on trimarans and they are different from kayaks.
The design in the link is not strong enough to be safe on anything other than FLAT water. First, the akas (crossbeams) should be one piece from ama (float) to ama. It should be strong enough that it will not break holding up the full weight of the boat and gear.
The position of the amas can be important especially if you need the rudder to steer. In the wrong place (too far aft) when you load up the float the rudder lifts out of the water and you have no steering.
For use getting in and out of the kayak at rest a paddle float works just fine if you know how to use it. This training is basic to learning to kayak. Just like diving there are things you need to know to be relatively safe in a kayak.
The answer to safety and comfort in a kayak is more training and practice, not another gadget.
It my be a trimaran or catamaran or something else but not a kayak.
A kayak gets the majority of it's seakeeping ability from the skill of the paddler and it's ability to move with the waves and recover from a capsize. With the outriggers it cannot move nearly so easily and becomes harder to flip but nearly impossible to right once flipped.
Also, you need to think of the forces and rules that operate on trimarans and they are different from kayaks.
The design in the link is not strong enough to be safe on anything other than FLAT water. First, the akas (crossbeams) should be one piece from ama (float) to ama. It should be strong enough that it will not break holding up the full weight of the boat and gear.
The position of the amas can be important especially if you need the rudder to steer. In the wrong place (too far aft) when you load up the float the rudder lifts out of the water and you have no steering.
For use getting in and out of the kayak at rest a paddle float works just fine if you know how to use it. This training is basic to learning to kayak. Just like diving there are things you need to know to be relatively safe in a kayak.
The answer to safety and comfort in a kayak is more training and practice, not another gadget.
I think that people wanting out riggers on the kayak is due to lack of experience with a kayak. They really are very seaworthy as they are. Like riding a bicycle they can be challenging to learn but the truth is that once you figure them out that again like a bicycle it is fun, fast, easy and just plain becomes second nature.
Any attachment system to these modern rotomolded kayaks must distribute the load over a large area or the outrigger will rip off ruining the boat.
As to a canoe, canoes are great fun but unlie sit on top kayak they are not self bailing, not very seaworthy, cannot be easily righted if capsized, no secure storage, extremely diffucult to get in and out of in the water--if not IMPOSSIBLE--and basically a poor choice for a dive platform. Good luck. N
Any attachment system to these modern rotomolded kayaks must distribute the load over a large area or the outrigger will rip off ruining the boat.
As to a canoe, canoes are great fun but unlie sit on top kayak they are not self bailing, not very seaworthy, cannot be easily righted if capsized, no secure storage, extremely diffucult to get in and out of in the water--if not IMPOSSIBLE--and basically a poor choice for a dive platform. Good luck. N
I know a couple of guys who dive Monterey from a canoe. It's gotta
be a real flat day, but they do it.
be a real flat day, but they do it.
DiveGolfSki
Contributor
Nemrod:
Outrigger canoes or an ordinary canoe. If the latter, I agree with that being an impractical dive platform. If the former, I guess you haven't dove in the Philippines? Those guys have built ladders/platforms to solve the issue. Some are specially built outriggers just for diving (see below)
There are a number of sources for plans for Polynesian Outrigger canoes. Some of them are fairly complex. I suspect, could be wrong, that we were talking about putting outriggers on a regular canoe. I still maintain that a kayak, sit on top style, due to it's ability not to flood if capsized make it superior to a canoe evenif rigged with homemade outriggers. If on the other hand your building a polynesian sea canoe which are designed more like kayaks than canoes and are structurally adapted to outriggers then that is a whole different animal.
DiveGolfSki
Contributor
Nemrod:
How many people can you put in a kayak? Two at most? Outrigger Canoe's can handle more weight. Hell, the one in that picture has a diesel engine.
Anyway, for one person/diver, a diving kayak may be the best. I've never been on one. Besides, I like to chill out after a dive ... bear in hand is the best.
" bear in hand is the best."
You like to "chill"after a dive with a BEAR in hand, holy cow!!!! and on a canoe with outriggers!!! That I would like to see.
I don't think I can get an outrigger canoe with a diesel engine on top of my car. I would rather use an inflatable or center console Whaler.
Speaking of catamaran and sea going outrigger canoes and Polynesian designs do a search for James Wharram. He has designed a number of small to medium size Polynesian inspired designs. Some I think have been kitted. They are very organic and beautiful.
It would be great if you could purchase a small one/two place Polyneisan outrigger canoe set up for diving with a folding outrigger, watertight compartments etc, that would be fun.
However, since you have never been on a sea kayak, which themselves are a native inpspired boat, I think you underestimate their capabilities and worry to much about diffuculty. N
You like to "chill"after a dive with a BEAR in hand, holy cow!!!! and on a canoe with outriggers!!! That I would like to see.
I don't think I can get an outrigger canoe with a diesel engine on top of my car. I would rather use an inflatable or center console Whaler.
Speaking of catamaran and sea going outrigger canoes and Polynesian designs do a search for James Wharram. He has designed a number of small to medium size Polynesian inspired designs. Some I think have been kitted. They are very organic and beautiful.
It would be great if you could purchase a small one/two place Polyneisan outrigger canoe set up for diving with a folding outrigger, watertight compartments etc, that would be fun.
However, since you have never been on a sea kayak, which themselves are a native inpspired boat, I think you underestimate their capabilities and worry to much about diffuculty. N
james croft
Contributor
Back in the late 60's I did some diving in the Phillipines from a wooden outrigger canoe called a banca. It had a small lawnmower type inboard engine with the shaft going through a grease filled stuffing box. It ran fast and was almost impossible to flip. Extremely stable and we climbed back into the banca by using the outriggers. We rented the boat and the owner for two dollars a day. The owner of the boat dove with goggles made out of bamboo with lenses glued to them and held together with innertube strips. San Miguel beers were also available for a dime apiece. All things considered, a perfect dive boat.
DiveGolfSki
Contributor
Nemrod:
I meant beer....
Sorry if I misled you, I'm not worried about their difficulty nor am I underestimating their capabilities. I'm quite sure they're stable ... but Sir Veyor's original posts has pictures of that kayak with the outriggers. The fishing pic seems to suggest that you can stand up with these? I don't think you can do that with a regular kayak can you? I know they're not "DIR" for Kayak purists but it seems you can fold up these and revert back to the kayak mode.
But I guess you have a point ... why go through all that (hell, why not put an electric motor on it) when you can just get a RIM.
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