Orange Grove fatality?

[cerich]

Her name is Judy and she's working as a nurse in Tampa. She recovered after being in a coma for a period of time. I met her last summer in Belize and did a dive with her.

that is really great news!

 

[Jack Hammer]

I can't recall a single case of a backmount diver dying due to a OOA from a closed isolator.

I'm sure I've read of a few people found with isolator closed and one tank full. I believe one was the School sink incident and one at Eagles Nest (a fatality).

 

[karstdvr]

Some, like myself think the community is partly to blame.

You are correct in your supposition. The community used to be rigid, and only accepted something as safe and having a good prior history. Now we tend to see the status quo being bent to satisfy a desire or I hate to say, a marketing trend. Am I saying any change is bad,no,but some of the changes are not well thought out,with a look to the end result.

 

[bamafan]

Her name is Judy and she's working as a nurse in Tampa. She recovered after being in a coma for a period of time. I met her last summer in Belize and did a dive with her.

My girlfriend worked with her at Tampa General. I have never met her but I remember my girlfriend telling me she had an accident. I had heard about this before but I never put the two together till now. Very interesting and apparently she is fully functional now.

 

[PfcAJ]

I'm sure I've read of a few people found with isolator closed and one tank full. I believe one was the School sink incident and one at Eagles Nest (a fatality).

I don't recall a fatality at EN with a closed isolator, can you send me info? The Wayne's World one for sure though (amongst other things).

I think a lot of isolator related problems occur from poor management on the surface rather than in the water. The manifold can certainly cook your goose idiots not managed right, but it gives you options that just don't exist with independents.

 

[Caveeagle]

Fortunately, I have never had an issue with either a roll off, or a accidentally closed valve. I have caught myself with a closed valve on a pre-dive check, and make a habbit of doing a 'reach back' check before I get to the steps.

All the discussion around this has me re-thinking a better way to 'mistake proof' this. (look up: Poka-Yoke)

I am thinking of some sort of "Remove Before Flight" tags that I could keep on my valves when closed. ...just a thought.

Re: roll offs, I seem to remember a few divers back in the early 90's that would use some some sort of PVC cap with a thin bungee to cover the valve knob and prevent roll-offs, or damage to the knob. Anyone still doing this?

 

[The Chairman]

a few divers back in the early 90's that would use some some sort of PVC cap with a thin bungee to cover the valve knob

which would waste precious time if you had a boom.

but it gives you options that just don't exist with independents.

Such as? Oh yeah, you don't have to look at those goofy bubbles if something starts leaking. Out of sight, out of mind. It's far easier to turn on and off valves behind you rather than in front of you. It's always easier to walk into the water with twice the weight. It's def easier to exchange a single tank with back mounted doubles on. Finally, how do they do resolve booms with only two valves? That's got to be chaotic. [/sarcasm]

But really, what additional options? What benefits, other than you've always done it that way? What am I missing?

 

[seanmeboy]

Looking over the standard I do not see where switching regulators is a drill in either cavern or intro, however it is part of a sidemount class. While I agree that backmount requires less task loading during the dive, once a sidemount diver is comfortable with his gear (after a number of dives) and developes muscle memory -even more dives, for many it is a more comfortable configuration especially if a problem develops. Every thing is right there and there is no "which tank is it?" as in backmount doubles.

That being said not withstanding the rules that may have been broken -(you can't regulate stupidity) said diver seemed from the discussion unfamiliar with his gear and was unable to handle a skill that should be well practiced before going into the overhead. -switching regulators.

With the information that is usually disseminated from these incidents besides "equipment functioning properly," one piece of information if true is the most useful- "victims tank valve was closed" roll-off?, panic?, complacency? Not to denigrate in any way the reports (I believe they should be required reading) but without training history and a divers log to determine experience and other information that could potentially harm those associated with the individual, there will not be enough facts made availlable to the industry to effect a positive change that could perhaps keep this from happening to at least one individual again.

 

[cerich]

Looking over the standard I do not see where switching regulators is a drill in either cavern or intro, however it is part of a sidemount class. While I agree that backmount requires less task loading during the dive, once a sidemount diver is comfortable with his gear (after a number of dives) and developes muscle memory -even more dives, for many it is a more comfortable configuration especially if a problem develops. Every thing is right there and there is no "which tank is it?" as in backmount doubles.

That being said not withstanding the rules that may have been broken -(you can't regulate stupidity) said diver seemed from the discussion unfamiliar with his gear and was unable to handle a skill that should be well practiced before going into the overhead. -switching regulators.

With the information that is usually disseminated from these incidents besides "equipment functioning properly," one piece of information if true is the most useful- "victims tank valve was closed" roll-off?, panic?, complacency? Not to denigrate in any way the reports (I believe they should be required reading) but without training history and a divers log to determine experience and other information that could potentially harm those associated with the individual, there will not be enough facts made availlable to the industry to effect a positive change that could perhaps keep this from happening to at least one individual again.

cave also doesn't have mask clearing as a skill, should I start teaching it on cave classes?

Why is there this idea that a cave student is going to be taught either BM or SM on the class? A cave class is about learning to cave dive, if you don't know your configuration.... go learn that first.

 

[Caveeagle]

which would waste precious time if you had a boom.

by 'boom', I assume you mean a burst disk. How do you estimate the incident frequency of a burst disk blown vs a valve roll-off? ..Just from these threads over the past few days, there are several divers that have experienced some sort of roll-off. The only 'In water' burst disk I have heard of was at the surface and involved hot tank, cold water and an old disk. So, If I thought a roll-off was a serious problem, I might trade 1/10th of second to flip a cap off the valve for a little protection of that knob. I would say that removal of said cap would need to be part of shut down drills and become very habitual.

..Why is there this idea that a cave student is going to be taught either BM or SM on the class? A cave class is about learning to cave dive, if you don't know your configuration.... go learn that first.

Are we that far removed from the days where Intro divers were required to dive single tank, and grow into doubles during apprentice/full training? I guess I have still not adjusted to times. There really was an era where divers came to cave country to learn skills like doubles and line drills, and then took those skills back home for other types of diving (ie wreck).

For me at least, learning to dive doubles is nothing like sidemount. The variability is not even comparable between gear types and configuration. For these reasons, I don't think learning SM should be done during cavern or cave training. Doubles did not seem like that big of a change for me.