opinions on air integrated computers?

[*dave*]

If you're well trained, highly experienced diver, you don't need anything but a tank, exposure suit (if dictated by water temperature), analog depth gauge, analog compass, a timing piece and some slates with your dive plan written on them. You don't even need an SPG when you equip your tank with a J-valve. You don't even need a BC if you were to weight yourself correct.

Heck, vintage divers do it all the time.

Computers, any sort of computers, are far from necessary.

Yet somehow the regular computer users kept telling us that AI computers are unnecessary but the regular computer is necessary.

Well, I use a computer, but it's in gauge mode. I'd be just as comfortable with a watch and depth gauge, but I enjoy some of the features of the computer. I'm also an instructor and know I can't expect casual divers to dive that way. Computers aren't necessary for anyone, but they make things easier.... much easier.

AI is like having a light on your watch to tell you when the sun is out. If I've remembered anything I've learned during OW about dive planning, I'm going to have a pressure planned at which the dive ends. If you need a computer to tell you when you hit that pressure, are you going to have the SA to sort out the wheat from the chaff when your computer fails?

These "calculations" you seem to dread are basic 6th grade pre-algebra, at worst. I guess that's an issue for some and those people would likely be well served diving AI. So, I guess there are some valid reasons I hadn't thought of for going AI.

 

[gcbryan]

However an AI computer will allow a diver to maximize bottom time and free them up from the relatively mundane task of doing mathematical calculations when they could be looking at the pretty fish.

I wouldn't call looking at a spg or having a minimum reserve in mind as doing mathematical calculations.

Think of a recent thread here on this board, the unfortunate young fellow who didn't monitor his gas while diving the Spiegel Grove. He glanced at his gauge when he was down to around 200 psi at 130 feet and made a dash for the surface.

An AI computer might have warned him of low gas at the 700 psi mark, or whatever the default or user selected setting might have been, giving him ample time for a safe ascent.

It doesn't generally work that way. If you are that lacking in awareness you will generally have other problems as well.

In the case you've cited he made it to 30 fsw and couldn't control his BC by venting and bounced to the surface so AI wasn't going to do anything for him. Who's to say he would have been aware enough to set a reserve in the first place or to listen to an alarm?

 

[PfcAJ]

We're back to comparing driving a car to diving.

Diving is recreational (at least for most of us)... and to use a piece of technology that will do more of the work for us, so we can enjoy the diving that much more, is a good thing. A VERY good thing.

No one needs a dive computer, let alone an AI computer.

However an AI computer will allow a diver to maximize bottom time and free them up from the relatively mundane task of doing mathematical calculations when they could be looking at the pretty fish.

In the case of a careless or narc'd diver, the built in audio and visual alarms just might shake them back to reality if they haven't been paying attention to their gas supply.

Think of a recent thread here on this board, the unfortunate young fellow who didn't monitor his gas while diving the Spiegel Grove. He glanced at his gauge when he was down to around 200 psi at 130 feet and made a dash for the surface.

An AI computer might have warned him of low gas at the 700 psi mark, or whatever the default or user selected setting might have been, giving him ample time for a safe ascent.

Shenanegans. There was so much wrong with that dive from the beginning that the poor guy didn't have a chance.

Deep air. Check. Poor (none?) planning for the dive? Check. Not enough gas for the dive? Check. Lack of experience for the dive? Check. Where was his buddy? Oh wait, his dad rolled out because he was low on gas. Check.

Fixing the nearly universal problem (training) by placing a bandaid (dive computer) isn't going to really fix the problem.

 

[idocsteve]

In the case you've cited he made it to 30 fsw and couldn't control his BC by venting and bounced to the surface so AI wasn't going to do anything for him. Who's to say he would have been aware enough to set a reserve in the first place or to listen to an alarm?

Maybe.

The entire chain of events started by Matt's failure to monitor his gas. When he finally looked at his gauge he was down to a couple of hundred psi. While he might not have gone into a full blown panic, he did make some poor decisions, probably due to a "very heightened state of anxiety". If he had an early warning, from a beeping flashing AI computer, things might have turned out differently.

 

[gcbryan]

Maybe.

The entire chain of events started by Matt's failure to monitor his gas. When he finally looked at his gauge he was down to a couple of hundred psi. While he might not have gone into a full blown panic, he did make some poor decisions, probably due to a "very heightened state of anxiety". If he had an early warning, from a beeping flashing AI computer, things might have turned out differently.

The same argument could apply to training wheels on a bike.

You can also make the reverse argument that people might start getting into more trouble anticipating that their computer will get them out of it.

What if he had an AI computer and didn't realize that he had turned the alarms off and used that as the excuse for running low on air. That's just as likely.

I'm not personally saying that just because you have an AI computer you will be a poorer diver. You are what you are and any computer is just a tool. AI to me is just bells and whistles. There's nothing wrong with having it other than it's just fluff.

 

[idocsteve]

What if he had an AI computer and didn't realize that he had turned the alarms off and used that as the excuse for running low on air. That's just as likely.

The default on most if not all AI computers is that the alarms will sound at some reasonably calculated level which will give the typical recreational diver a safety margin. If a diver intentionally turned off the alarms then he's defeating the purpose of a computer. It would be like putting only one training wheel on a bicycle or jumping in with a pony bottle shut off that you cannot reach during a dive.

I'm not personally saying that just because you have an AI computer you will be a poorer diver. You are what you are and any computer is just a tool. AI to me is just bells and whistles. There's nothing wrong with having it other than it's just fluff.

An AI is a lot more than just fluff. It removes a good part of a diver's task load and maximizes bottom time.

That much said, I'll suggest that having an AI computer can make a diver more complacent and therefore more prone to being careless, and less able to react in an emergency should the computer become unavailable.

 

[fnfalman]

Well, I use a computer, but it's in gauge mode. I'd be just as comfortable with a watch and depth gauge, but I enjoy some of the features of the computer. I'm also an instructor and know I can't expect casual divers to dive that way. Computers aren't necessary for anyone, but they make things easier.... much easier.

AI is like having a light on your watch to tell you when the sun is out...

Of course it makes things easier. Same thing with AI computer. Yet inn one sentence you said computers aren't necessary and the next sentence you said that AI is not necessary. Which is it? Necessary (computer and AI computer) or not?

Computers are nothing more than frosting on a cake. Nice to have but not necessary. AI feature is like cherry on top of the frosting on a cake. Nice to have but not necessary either.

All you really need is the cake. You don't need the frosting, nor do you need the cherry. But either one of those or both on top of the cake makes it a bit nicer.

 

[fnfalman]

The same argument could apply to training wheels on a bike.

You can also make the reverse argument that people might start getting into more trouble anticipating that their computer will get them out of it.

What if he had an AI computer and didn't realize that he had turned the alarms off and used that as the excuse for running low on air. That's just as likely.

I'm not personally saying that just because you have an AI computer you will be a poorer diver. You are what you are and any computer is just a tool. AI to me is just bells and whistles. There's nothing wrong with having it other than it's just fluff.

Plenty of people use SPG and run out of air.

Is it the SPG's fault now? Maybe the excuse is that instead of tick marks for indicating pressure readouts, a certain SPG has circles indicating the pressure readouts with colors and the diver got all confused?

AI to you is just bells and whistles. To the vintage divers and certain DIR types, computers are just bells and whistles.

If AI is fluff then what is the regular dive computer?

As far as AI makes a diver complacement. AI doesn't make a diver do anything. A diver makes himself or herself complacent.

Once upon a time, BCs were poopooed because they weren't necessary and made divers complacent with their underwater skills too...

 

[idocsteve]

Computers are nothing more than frosting on a cake. Nice to have but not necessary. AI feature is like cherry on top of the frosting on a cake. Nice to have but not necessary either.

All you really need is the cake. You don't need the frosting, nor do you need the cherry. But either one of those or both on top of the cake makes it a bit nicer.

I am going to respectfully request that fnlfaman and all other ScubaBoard members refrain from using analogies that have references to "icing" or "cake" or "frosting" when making their points.

I'm really trying to get below 220 lbs, and it's not easy. I read a post like this, and I start to salivate.

 

[mills705]

jeez i seem to have made a big debate here!
The fact that there are alot of pros and cons suggested here is alot to take in. When I have the funds I will go and look. and ask some questions!