'Open Water' only sidemount BCDs: Your opinions?

[rjack321]

To me, there are lots of things "wrong" with many of the stock SM rigs today.
1) neck bungies done so the tanks hang below the plane of your body
2) the cut of the wing having too much lift up high, necessitating trim weights on the shoulders
3) difficulties integrating lead into the rig to suit your tank/body size
4) accessible places to put backup lights

I would rather see manufacturers addressing these types of issues vs adapting SM rigs to the erroneous preceptions of OW divers.

 

[karstdvr]

2) the cut of the wing having too much lift up high, necessitating trim weights on the shoulders

Bingo!!!!! Sidemounting was never intended to be used with a wing,it was available for use,so it was adopted by manufactures. In fact the jacket BC,that inflates air around your torso is superior

I would rather see manufacturers addressing these types of issues vs adapting SM rigs to the erroneous preceptions of OW divers.

+1

 

[DevonDiver]

My point is it's a preference not a right or wrong thing.-

I agree.

Which takes us back to my original point... re-worded: Why are some sidemount manufacturers deliberately seeking to create a false perception amongst divers that there are "right or wrong" configurations dependent on overhead/open-water environments?

---------- Post added February 14th, 2013 at 11:48 AM ----------

To me, there are lots of things "wrong" with many of the stock SM rigs today.....I would rather see manufacturers addressing these types of issues

I've yet to find a SM rig that was ideal for me. Those that come closest tend to have a price that is still far from 'ideal'.

....vs adapting SM rigs to the erroneous preceptions of OW divers.

It's not the job of manufacturers to shape perceptions. I can fully understand that if they see a demand, they will seek to fill it. Fair dues... they exist to make profit.

Erroneous perceptions exist because of instructors create them. Specifically with sidemount, we have a new (the first) generation of recreational diving instructors getting involved in sidemount training. The vast majority of which have no previous experience diving sidemount and don't come from a tech/cave background. Those instructors naturally struggle with certain aspects of sidemount tuition: higher buoyancy/trim/propulsion standards, attention-to-detail and conceptual awareness in equipment configuration.. etc etc. They cannot pass those refinements on to students, because they don't have them themselves.

There would be two solutions to this; improve the instructors' capability to meet the standards or (2) reduce the standards to meet the instructors' capability. No medals will be issued for correctly guessing the solution adopted by the 'big' agencies.

Of course... calling it "Open Water Sidemount" is a great way to achieve option (1)... lower expectations, to match the lower standards required....

 

[rjack321]

Erroneous perceptions exist because of instructors create them. Specifically with sidemount, we have a new (the first) generation of recreational diving instructors getting involved in sidemount training. The vast majority of which have no previous experience diving sidemount and don't come from a tech/cave background. Those instructors naturally struggle with certain aspects of sidemount tuition: higher buoyancy/trim/propulsion standards, attention-to-detail and conceptual awareness in equipment configuration.. etc etc. They cannot pass those refinements on to students, because they don't have them themselves.

Student ideas about SM come from 2 places, advertising and the internet. IMHO They go to instructors after the fact. I know I did. I bought the wrong rig for me at first and only after diving with a friend of mine who actually knows SM well did I get squared away with a different rig more suited to my needs. I can't remember how many threads we've had here where the OP has all these grandiose ideas about what and how they are going to rig their SM setup. Without any instruction at all, purely off marketing literature and what they read on forums like this one.

 

[DevonDiver]

Student ideas about SM come from 2 places, advertising and the internet. IMHO They go to instructors after the fact.

This was so, but perhaps not so much more recently. Bearing in mind that PADI et al are beating sidemount with the big marketing stick..

There'll be plenty of SM course being sold directly to students as 'continued education', straight from the LDS etc. As with the majority of the scuba community, most of those prospective students won't be actively involved in Scubaboard and other SM-inclusive forums... neither will they be hitting up Google to find out the nitty-gritty before they select a course, instructor or LDS to train at...

Also... bear in mind that an increasing majority of 'qualified' sidemount instructors have done little more than a 2-3 day familiarization course as a prerequisite to teaching it. Given the sparsity of information available officially to new rec sm instructors, I would assume that (the more diligent) instructors will be developing their understanding via advertising and internet also.. If the agencies, the manufacturers and the instructors are all singing the 'dumb-it-down' theme, then that's what prospective students will hum along to..

 

[DaleC]

"Student ideas about SM come from 2 places, advertising and the internet."


Guilty

...and loving it


Of course, I did spend time talking to Lamar directly about the Nomad too.

The only real weak point in my rig is that I am using a traditional wing instead of a delta design. Oh well. On the other hand; I haven't run out and purchased a rig I will regret down the road. I can absorb the $30 research costs so far.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Sorry, but I have to disagree. It is just as easy to route a low pressure inflator hose to a top mounted corrugated hose as it is to a bottom mounted corrugated hose. The examples shown above show a method of routing that is awkward but this is not the only method. Think outside of the box.

As for the very first reason for swapping inflator and exhaust, I wasn't there and don't know but I've seen a few broken elbows because they were top mounted. I know that some people in the beginning did it to protect the elbow. It had nothing to do with hose routing.

 

[JamesK]

Wow. This thread is fun.

I have absolutely NO problem with OW sidemount rigs. Different strokes for different folks. Some folks love a top mounted inflator, others do not. Use what works best for you in the environment you are diving.

Sure, SM was born in cave diving. Yippee freggin skippee! Who cares? It has no branched out and is seen everywhere. I am just happy that it has caught on like it has. Now everyone has many more options and can build what works for them. The downside is of course crappy instructor puppy mills, and gear being rushed to market by a manufacturer that saw sidemount on YouTube and are now experts. But hey, weed through the crap and find the golden nugget.

Personally I love the setup my Manta Rig has on it. It has a butt dump in the lower right hip, a shoulder dump on the right inside the wing, and a LPI coming from the bottom left. Boom! Best of both worlds. I can dump no matter what position I am in easily, without issue, and with a hose routing that works for me. My one compliant is the shape of the wing. Granted they did it right by baffling the wing, and making the butt area larger and tapering towards the top, however, the top still tends to bubble. I have fixed that by adding old school bungees across the top and voila! Instant freggin trim success! Although I was easily able to trim out before, the mods just make things cleaner.

My UTD setup is not like that. Although it usually does not bother me because I rarely have any air in it anyway. It is more of a surface floatation device for OW diving. The baffles in the wing, and the low profile of it, combined with the triangular shape, allow for great trim without any weight at all.

 

[MSargeant]

I don't see the "need" for top mounted inflator hoses, i dive OW and sticking my left buttcheeck out and dumping the air is simple enough, then descending horizontally.
I learned on the Hollis SMS100 and found the top mounted inflator hose a PITA. Just my 2 cents, i have a short inflator coming out of a 5th port on an Apeks DST so the bottom mounted suits my hose routing, same for anyone with an Apeks sidemount reg set i'd say.

My 2 pence.

 

[DaleC]

I just helped a friend set up a new Hollis sms50 today - the bottom LPI was too short for manual inflation. I would love to know the justification for this. Do some sm divers just assume they will never need to orally inflate the wing and, with this in mind, criticize a top LPI that allows such an option, as being unnecessary.