OP
'Open Water' only sidemount BCDs: Your opinions?
- Thread starter DevonDiver
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OK, so you don't have a legitimate reason for doing so. I guess my case has been made. You are making a much bigger issue and promoting a one way of doing things mentality.
---------- Post added February 13th, 2013 at 10:14 AM ----------
Yes it will still work. it is not ideal. But that is generally why a dump valve is placed at the top. I personally believe that if you don't have a need to protect the LPI (you are not diving in small caves or wrecks) keeping the LPI at the top and a dump at the bottom of the wing, gives you more options, doesn't effect the way you trim out, does not complicate hose routing. At times, even though I have my LPI and dump switched, I would prefer to have them the standard way and have debated with myself to go back to the original position.
---------- Post added February 13th, 2013 at 10:14 AM ----------
A very informative and thought provoking exchange for a SM diver in spe.What about the situation that was mentioned somewhere above - if a sidemount diver must ascend vertically in a crevice or a shaft that doesn't permit a horizontal trim? Will a bottom mounted LPI still work?
Yes it will still work. it is not ideal. But that is generally why a dump valve is placed at the top. I personally believe that if you don't have a need to protect the LPI (you are not diving in small caves or wrecks) keeping the LPI at the top and a dump at the bottom of the wing, gives you more options, doesn't effect the way you trim out, does not complicate hose routing. At times, even though I have my LPI and dump switched, I would prefer to have them the standard way and have debated with myself to go back to the original position.
OP
DevonDiver
N/A
Actually, no... I'm not. Read the thread fully and you'll see what my motives for raising the issue were. If you've feel you've made any type of 'case', you're obviously (self)-pleased. I don't see much other than a regurgitation of supposed 'facts' that you heard somewhere along the way. I absolutely do not like instructors talking nonsense - because the nonsense goes down the chain to students... who accept it as gospel truth.
Do I see this as a 'big issue'? No, of course not. Is it worth debating? Yes, why not? I've had allergic sinusitis all week and no diving, so I enjoy keeping my brain active with a debate. There's been some very good points made by people... I've challenged them, but why not? Some of your points are good too.... but spreading nonsense facts isn't.
I can see that sidemount is starting to suffer from the same type of 'dive pro repression' that simple concepts likes BP&W or slung ponys used to. "It's for tech divers only..." Right? Low-mounted LPI's.. "it's a caver thing...". The sort of ego-protective nonsense by ill-educated 'pros' that deprives or delays the wider dive community of some seriously beneficial concepts to consider. (note: "to consider").
My problem is more with statements like this from manufacturers than the actual gear...
I don't know any good divers hanging on down lines. Or needing to orient vertically on OW walls. And even if you wanted to in a special circumstance, say if you are videoing a diver above you on the wall trying to get them backlit by the sun, the "cave configured" SM rig with a dump near the top and an LPI near the bottom works just fine.
I don't know any good divers hanging on down lines. Or needing to orient vertically on OW walls. And even if you wanted to in a special circumstance, say if you are videoing a diver above you on the wall trying to get them backlit by the sun, the "cave configured" SM rig with a dump near the top and an LPI near the bottom works just fine.
I agree with you fully, but I feel that you are spreading nonsense about how a LPI at the bottom of the wing is the only correct way to go.
I don't believe hose routing is a legitimate reason to do the switch. Again the only real good reason to do it is to protect the elbow. I don't consider the SMS 100 to be just an open water rig, but it comes standard with the LPI on top. Is diving it that way in a cave or overhead wrong, no. It's just different. You should be teaching your classes with the disclaimer that your way is not the only way to dive sidemount.
Not to me. If I had the LPI and elbow on the top, in many caves I wouldn't be able to easily get the hose high enough to dump - since there's a ceiling right there. The pull cord on the dump is much easier to activate without faffing around contorting an arm/hand trying to get the LPI above the wing.
TracyN
Contributor
FWIW I'm a sidemount diver with my dump valve on my shoulder with a pull string and my inflator on the bottom. I love the dump on my shoulder because it's so easy to pull the string and vent. I can vent just fine horizontally, vertically, or in pretty much any position. I can even vent from the valve on the inflator mechanism itself. I guess it has something to do with how the bungees are set up. I got my rig directly from Edd Sorrenson with all of his tweaks and additions. I have not had any issues venting air at all. In fact when I dive my OW rig that has the inflator mechanism and dump valve on my shoulder I now instinctively try to pull the string and its not there. I hate having to stretch the hose above my head to vent air. Take my comments for what their worth. The set up I have works fine for me and might not work great for others.
LPI's are ~14 to 16" long. So it ends up sticking out in front of you and if you are even slightly head down won't be able to dump. The left tank then gets in the way of access to the butt dump.
If the "weak elbow" concept was the only issue with having the LPI on the top/shoulder, then the elbows could just be cast out of aluminum or something like that. There are other issues with having the LPI routed off the shoulder in a SM cave.
I don't think OW divers have to have the LPI on the shoulder. What I don't like is the concept that there's OW trim and cave trim. Using the fallacy that they are different trims for different environments to make money selling gear is crap.
If the "weak elbow" concept was the only issue with having the LPI on the top/shoulder, then the elbows could just be cast out of aluminum or something like that. There are other issues with having the LPI routed off the shoulder in a SM cave.
I don't think OW divers have to have the LPI on the shoulder. What I don't like is the concept that there's OW trim and cave trim. Using the fallacy that they are different trims for different environments to make money selling gear is crap.
Rich, don't take what I'm posting the wrong way. I too have my LPI and dump switched. My point is it's a preference not a right or wrong thing.
---------- Post added February 13th, 2013 at 02:11 PM ----------
Rjack, don't take what I'm posting the wrong way. I too have my LPI and dump switched. My point is it's a preference not a right or wrong thing.
---------- Post added February 13th, 2013 at 02:11 PM ----------
Rjack, don't take what I'm posting the wrong way. I too have my LPI and dump switched. My point is it's a preference not a right or wrong thing.
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