Open water dive PADI in Bangkok HELP!!!

[DevonDiver]

If you like shops that employ instructors illegally, use unqualified people to do training courses, lie to their customers, use old and unsafe equipment, dont train students correctly, dont provide customers with what they promise. I am sure you will thoroughly enjoy yourself.
Not snide and ubstantiated remarks, these are actual facts.

Your posts are so generic... they imply every shop is like that. In Pattaya...and also in threads for other areas, such as Koh Tao.

 

[lord khram]

Your posts are so generic... they imply every shop is like that. In Pattaya...and also in threads for other areas, such as Koh Tao.

Yes in my experience, most of the shops I have dived with in pattaya have serious failings. And if my posts appear generic, that reflects the pattaya dive shops, because most of them are run on the same theme.

But please quote me one instance where I have complained about a shop in Koh Tao????
Because there you are talking absolute crap, that is something I have never done.

 

[josh]

Yes in my experience, most of the shops I have dived with in pattaya have serious failings. And if my posts appear generic, that reflects the pattaya dive shops, because most of them are run on the same theme.
.

Kram, you are perilously close to being a POV warrior, something specifically mentioned in the ToS to which you agreed to.

Really, time to move on.

 

[jdfmail]

Just add LK to your ignore list and you don't have to deal with his negative views.

 

[Apecks]

Suggest you give some of them a try let us know your opinion.
If you like shops that employ instructors illegally, use unqualified people to do training courses, lie to their customers, use old and unsafe equipment, dont train students correctly, dont provide customers with what they promise.

I have over 200 dives in Pattaya & Samesan and do not see any differences between there and other areas in Thailand. In fact I can think of some aspects of diving there that I enjoy more than anywhere else. My experience:-

Illegally Employed Instructors - I personally know roughly 10 Pattaya based instructors. 8 are legal by either working direct for the dive centre or freelance with there own companies. 2 are not strictly legal as they are part time but do hold work permits friom there regular employers. I would think the situation in most other areas is similar or worse.

Unqualified People Taking Courses - Never seen or heard of it on most of the boats I have been on or being discussed on the grapevine. Have you got any specifics?

Lie To There Customers - They would only do it once? But all of them?

Old & Unsafe Equipment - I know you have your own equipment so this must relate really to tanks & weights. With the exception of one Thai operator I have never seen any tanks that were bad shape or within there tested limits. I have had the odd problem with o rings or sticking valves but this is not exclusive to here.

Don't train students correctly - My experience is quite the opposite, with the slightly higher costs the traing seems to be a bit more individual than some other areas. I am certainly more than happy with mine. Have you got any examples?

Dont provide customers with what they promise - Presumably from your previous posts this will relate to dive times, no. of dives & dive sites. I personally have never been on a boat there that had less than a 1 hour dive time unless the dive plan dictated (i.e the wrecks), on a number of occassions I have paid for a two dive day and ended up doing three for the same cost. Diving in some other areas in Thailand this would never happen.
I would be lying if I said I had not booked to go the the 'far islands' and ended up on the 'near islands' but most of the time I have been quite satisfied that this was due to natural conditions. Again this has happened to me in other areas of Thailand, so is not exclusive to Pattaya.

 

[Ex-Aquanaut]

Apecks -- Please do not fee the trolls. As Josh pointed out, SB's ToS defines a troll as:

Exploiting the weaknesses of human nature or of an on-line community to upset people. ScubaBoard includes POV warriors, cranks, impolite users and disruptive behaviour in this definition.

Think LK prety much at least 3 of 4 there...

 

[lord khram]

I have over 200 dives in Pattaya & Samesan and do not see any differences between there and other areas in Thailand. In fact I can think of some aspects of diving there that I enjoy more than anywhere else. My experience:-

Illegally Employed Instructors - I personally know roughly 10 Pattaya based instructors. 8 are legal by either working direct for the dive centre or freelance with there own companies. 2 are not strictly legal as they are part time but do hold work permits friom there regular employers. I would think the situation in most other areas is similar or worse.

Unqualified People Taking Courses - Never seen or heard of it on most of the boats I have been on or being discussed on the grapevine. Have you got any specifics?

Lie To There Customers - They would only do it once? But all of them?

Old & Unsafe Equipment - I know you have your own equipment so this must relate really to tanks & weights. With the exception of one Thai operator I have never seen any tanks that were bad shape or within there tested limits. I have had the odd problem with o rings or sticking valves but this is not exclusive to here.

Don't train students correctly - My experience is quite the opposite, with the slightly higher costs the traing seems to be a bit more individual than some other areas. I am certainly more than happy with mine. Have you got any examples?

Dont provide customers with what they promise - Presumably from your previous posts this will relate to dive times, no. of dives & dive sites. I personally have never been on a boat there that had less than a 1 hour dive time unless the dive plan dictated (i.e the wrecks), on a number of occassions I have paid for a two dive day and ended up doing three for the same cost. Diving in some other areas in Thailand this would never happen.
I would be lying if I said I had not booked to go the the 'far islands' and ended up on the 'near islands' but most of the time I have been quite satisfied that this was due to natural conditions. Again this has happened to me in other areas of Thailand, so is not exclusive to Pattaya.

Illegal instructors, one particular shop has only 2 instructors, both are on tourist visas, correct me if i am wrong but you are not allowed to hold a permit to work in Thailand with a tourist visa?

Unqualified people, I personally while acting as a dive guide at one shop was asked to conduct an advanced course, and I know of many other instances.

Lie to customers, Only last week i was told 30 m viz at ko sak. No need to say more on that one, take the 0 off and your closer to the mark.

Dont train properly, How about a DMT that paniked because he couldnt clear his own mask,

Poor Equipment, Take a day with Dive South East Asia, The bcd's look like there years old, straps missing, leaking inflators, generally just falling to pieces. Regulators with damaged hoses, leaking guages etc etc.

Again I am not saying all shops, but it happens frequently.

 

[Apecks]

Illegal instructors, one particular shop has only 2 instructors, both are on tourist visas, correct me if i am wrong but you are not allowed to hold a permit to work in Thailand with a tourist visa? No of course not and it is wrong I agree if it is the case. But this is not exclusive to Pattaya. Are you saying it does not happen in Koh Chang, Tao, Samui, Krabi or Phuket?
Unqualified people, I personally while acting as a dive guide at one shop was asked to conduct an advanced course, and I know of many other instances. It is very sad if that is the case. I have personally never encountered that at the dive centres I have used.

Lie to customers, Only last week i was told 30 m viz at ko sak. No need to say more on that one, take the 0 off and your closer to the mark. Are you sure they were not joking?

Dont train properly, How about a DMT that paniked because he couldnt clear his own mask Trained from OW upwards by one of the major local dive centres?

Poor Equipment, Take a day with Dive South East Asia, The bcd's look like there years old, straps missing, leaking inflators, generally just falling to pieces. Regulators with damaged hoses, leaking guages etc etc. On the other end of the spectrum there is one Pattaya dive centre that has all Apecks rental regs & Tusa / scubapro bcd's. Once again this problem is not exclusive to Pattaya.

I think you would get a lot more out of your posts if you were slight less general and more specific. There are some genuine good dive operations in Pattaya that do not deserve to be generalised with the dross.

 

[lord khram]

I think you would get a lot more out of your posts if you were slight less general and more specific. There are some genuine good dive operations in Pattaya that do not deserve to be generalised with the dross.

Yes I agree, of course theres good and bad everywhere, but as I spend most of my time and predominantly dive around Pattaya most of my recent diving experiences are in this area.
With regard to the 30 metres viz comment, certaily not a joke, it was someone trying to sell me some diving.
The DMT had done all his courses at the same shop, admittedly at different times with different instructors.
You want me to be specific, then fine, the illegal instructors are at Dive South East Asia. Personally if they do not hold the correct visas to work in Thailand, it would ring alarm bells, are they even qualified instructors?

And yes manybe you are right, it probably does go on in other parts of Thailand, but I am not aware myself of this type of thing in other areas.

 

[DevonDiver]

Illegal instructors, one particular shop has only 2 instructors, both are on tourist visas, correct me if i am wrong but you are not allowed to hold a permit to work in Thailand with a tourist visa?

This is common everywhere in ASIA, let alone in Thailand or even Pattaya. The rules and costs for Thai visas effectively prohibit most dive instructors from getting them.

If shops stuck to the visa rules absolutely, then the dive industry in Thailand would grind to a halt rather suddenly. From what I heard, Pattaya is one of the places where work visas were more prevalent....

Unqualified people, I personally while acting as a dive guide at one shop was asked to conduct an advanced course, and I know of many other instances.

Conduct the course or the dives? If you are a certified DM, then you can conduct many of the dives from the AOW programme under indirect supervision of an instructor. The common exceptions are deep and wreck. An instructor must conduct the theory/knowledge review and the certification.

Depending on the specific request...and your certification....then this could be an entirely reasonable request.

Lie to customers, Only last week i was told 30 m viz at ko sak. No need to say more on that one, take the 0 off and your closer to the mark.

I fail to see why a dive center would lie about something so obviously proven wrong...especially to a local diver like yourself. Are sure sure there wasn't a mistranslation, attempt at humor...or even an honest slip of the tongue (verbal typo)?

Dont train properly, How about a DMT that paniked because he couldnt clear his own mask,

If it was a DMT, then this comment has little relevance. Surely, the purpose of the DM TRAINEE programme is to identify and correct issues such as this. If it were a qualified DM that panicked because of water in the mask, then this would have some semblance of merit....

Besides....we all have bad days in the water. Unless you know the full circumstances, background etc...then your example does not justify your point.

Poor Equipment, Take a day with Dive South East Asia, The bcd's look like there years old, straps missing, leaking inflators, generally just falling to pieces. Regulators with damaged hoses, leaking guages etc etc.

Ha ha.... this is common in dive centers around the world. Well used equipment degrades quickly....and customers are notorious for not informing staff of any issues that they have with the kit they use (scared they will be blamed for breakages etc???).

I am not excusing dive centers for having delapidated kit.... but it is a fact of life that some dive centers will hold on to kit when it should be scrapped. This is an issue caused by the management of individual dive centers. As such, it is grossly unfair to claim that every dive center is Pattaya is badly managed and has low standards. How could that be?

Besides...what was your reaction to the bad equipment? Did you highlight the faults to a staff member, so that they could be rectified....or did you just hand the kit back in silently...and then rush to the internet where you could bad mouth them?

Yes I agree, of course theres good and bad everywhere, but as I spend most of my time and predominantly dive around Pattaya most of my recent diving experiences are in this area.

Then perhaps you should go and dive in other places....so that you could make an accurate comparison. If you dont have experience elsewhere, how the hell can you single out Pattaya for criticism....

You want me to be specific, then fine, the illegal instructors are at Dive South East Asia. Personally if they do not hold the correct visas to work in Thailand, it would ring alarm bells, are they even qualified instructors?

In places like Phi Phi, koh Tao and Borneo...most of the instructors are not on work visas. It is simply to expensive when balanced against their salaries. The majority of instructors in Thailand work on a casual/freelance basis....getting paid only for the work they do. There is no way they could afford work visas on that pay.

My experience on Tao was that only the dive shop managers ever needed to get work permits...because they had business obligations and needed to sign paperwork. There were never any inspections by the Thai Govt for work permits during the 2 years I worked there...and if there were....then Tao would have ceased to exist as a diving destination overnight.

Many of the instructors working there are hugely experienced...and have worked in many other dive destinations around the globe.... but they simply are not going to spend XXXXxXX baht on work permits/visas, when they only earn a few thousand baht for teaching a course.

To leap to a wild assumption that lack of work visa has any link to their professional credentials as dive instructors is simply laughable....and only serves to highlight your complete ignorance of the dive industry.

And yes manybe you are right, it probably does go on in other parts of Thailand, but I am not aware myself of this type of thing in other areas.

Then go get some wider experience before you start posting authoratitive comments on public forums. Some of the members here might be inexperienced and naive enough to actually take you seriously....