Open Water and the new rookie.

[cummings66]

I think any lds that wouldn't let me use gear I have in their pool if I was a customer of their's would soon be an ex lds. Consider those dive trips you're taking, you walk into a shop and they have something on closeout or used or whatever and you get it because it's a good deal and you can use it. I don't like the restrictions.

That said, once you certify you won't use the pool a lot. Do like I do, a local swim school has a pool and lets certified divers use it during the free swim days. Costs me $3 to use, not too bad.

 

[Firecracker]

I think any lds that wouldn't let me use gear I have in their pool if I was a customer of their's would soon be an ex lds. Consider those dive trips you're taking, you walk into a shop and they have something on closeout or used or whatever and you get it because it's a good deal and you can use it. I don't like the restrictions.

Ditto! I'd have to think TWICE about that. My LDS is extremely cool with gear bought elsewhere and training done elsewhere. I have access to his pool pretty much 24/7, if I wanted.

 

[midnite135]

I didnt intend it as a bash to the shop, the rule is basically no gear that they didnt sell in the pool unless it comes from a retailer they authorize. I dont know what it takes to get them to authorize it, but basically I think what they are intending to limit is online sales. Reasons for this are obvious but they stated safety in that knowing you have the manufacturers warranty and the gear is authentic quoting that its life support gear etc. However the obvious is also that they make alot of there money off of gear sales and online shops could put them out of business.

I am a believer in loyalty to the local dive shops but I also want to be treated fairly, not price gouged right and left etc (not referencing that towards anyone)

Also, I dont feel I should be limited to gear they have in the shop or can order. The reg I was looking at I have no problem buying from them, but I dont want one of their BC's. I am possibly looking at a BP/W from DSS or something along those lines. Im not sure how this would be perceived by them, and since they have had no opportunity to respond to it I am just going on an assumption to something they said that I may have partly misconstrued.

Anyways, its also a reason to check out some other LDS's as well. I just wanna know whos im my area that deserves a chance.

On a side any response on how that works if they are an SSI shop, how hard is it to train through others as well... for example.. I think the OW cert is accepted by the other shops... but how does that work if say.. I took OW through SSI, and a Wreck diving course through PADI. Am I SSI still, or PADI...

Anyways I have lots of questions and im just lookin around for answers ) Thanks again for your responses, ill check back soon.

-Josh

 

[cummings66]

I took my OW via a Padi course, I took my AOW via NASE, I'm taking Nitrox via Padi and I took drysuit via PADI.

Long way to say that as far as the dive op is concerned, what I am is what card I show.

In your case the highest cert is your certifying agency.

Again, I'd have to say talk to your LDS about what you want, see if you can get it through them. For the DSS gear it depends on if another dive shop has the exclusive for the area as to whether or not your LDS can get it. I wanted that gear and my LDS setup himself as a dealer for that brand so he could sell it to me. Yours may do the same if you ask.

Personally I don't like the restrictions they place on you by requiring it to be authorized. What happens if I move to your neighborhood and choose your LDS. Are they going to ban me from the pool because I didn't buy it there? I firmly believe you should be able to dive the gear you own because it doesn't do you any good to dive other peoples gear. I.e. say you get the DSS stuff, diving a jacket style BCD won't help you get proficient in the BP/W usage. The only way to get competent at diving is to dive and dive with the gear you use.

 

[bgray]

PM sent.

 

[HammerNoMore]

Josh, PM nauifins73, she's with Midwest Aquatics and can give you some advice.

You can also check out www.midwestdive.com for more local info.

James

 

[fire_diver]

My local dive shop has a rule that they wont let any gear they dont sell into the pool unless it comes from a retailer they authorize. I dont know how limiting that will be if I want to buy something they cant get. Im not sure but think they may refuse to train me as well, I dont know how that works if I train elsewhere at this point after doing SSI for the class. The differing certification agencies are a source of confusion for me.

Anyways any advice you can give is appreciated.

First, if this is the shop you are doing your OW class through, then just focus on finishing the cert.

After you have passed the class, walk away and don't look back. Any shop that puts that kind of restrictions on you, doesn't deserve your money.

After you have your OW card, it doesn't matter what LDS or what agency you take future classes with. They all recognize and honor each others cards. Don't worry about that agency the class is through, but look for a good instructor. THE INSTRUCTOR IS WHAT MAKES A GOOD CLASS!

My OW class was done through SDI, my NITROX class was done through PADI. My next class, Adv NITROX w/ decomp theory, will be a TDI class. It's all good!

 

[midnite135]

Thanks for the advice youve all offered. I had a pretty good conversation with one of the shop owners the other day and we will see how this all works out. On a side note I did not intend this at all as a bash at the shop, I was just putting a voice to my concerns and wanting some advice. I hope I didnt come accross differently. He has clarified it a bit more for me but I am still a bit leery of it. I will check out the other area shops before I decide for sure.

During our conversation I brought up this message board, I get the impression he didnt like message boards much but ahh well.

Anyways I see it as a good source of information/education naturally to be taken with a grain of salt but I enjoy sorting through the information for gems that I may take with me. During this I have come to look at different gear (never too soon to make a wish list) Anyways, I came accross the BP/W as opposed to a normal BC. I dont know how far I will go in diving but I want to keep my options open and something such as a diveplate from DSS or something looks like it may want to be a direction I want to go in. Of course I am still new and inexperienced but I feel I can get to a point I should be able to make an informed decision prior to making my purchases. I get the impression that he really wants me to goto a more traditional BC to gain a level of experience there 1st and move to something more technical later if I like... but if I can dive the BP/W normally why bother? Should I not just learn to dive what I will usually dive or want to dive?

He also mentioned that if I decided to do my technical diving through them my equipment options would be limited and they would help me decide what I want but there would be alot of gear limitations to the type of training they want to do.

Im unsure if this is the norm, Should I not be able to educate myself on what I want to do, pick out equipment that fits that capacity and find a place to train me on what I want to learn? Granted all LDS may not offer the same training on all gear types, but I expect that I just dont want to be limited in such a way and I think my self educating methods (reading msg boards, etc) are not popular with him. From what I have read on the boards deep sea supply seems to be well received but when I mentioned BP/W and showed him what I had in mind he didnt refuse it outright but steered me back in the direction of a traditional BC or a brand they sell of it.

He said in his 25 years hes never heard of DSS and I could take from that what I may, but he offered to call around to see what some of his friends know about it. Again I appreciate the feedback you all offer.

 

[Quarrior]

Josh,

May shops don't like the internet in general. They want you to come to them and them alone for your information because they can be relatively comfortable that when you come through the door you're going to buy something.

Some shops like Scuba Toys actually have embraced the internet and use it to their advantage while helping people in the process.

As for the Tech gear, you will not find much if any in the average shop. You will have to hunt around for it. Most commonly your Tech instructor either sells or has access to someone that does sell the gear. Again however, by the time you get to that level, you'll have a pretty good idea of what you want and then just need to hunt down someone that sells it.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[cummings66]

The reason a lot of lds's hate boards like this is an educated customer is bad for business. See, one of the things newbies are setup for is lots of gear sales and if you know you don't need X you won't buy it.

I can understand him not having heard of DSS gear, probably doesn't know a lot about BP/W's beyond Halcyon. That's not bad, but it does indicate he doesn't keep current with diving gear beyond what he keeps.

Yes, you can do OW dives in a BP/W and never want for more, and then you expand it to suit your needs. I.e. get into doubles buy a new wing to bolt up and go. You can design it to suit your needs at the moment unlike a jacket BCD which is pretty much what you get is what you got. Again, neither good nor bad but you do end up replacing gear due to that issue.

Don't stir up the hornets nest just yet, they can make life hard on you during your cert course, so just finish it up using whatever gear they want you to. What you have to buy right now is useful from now on unless you go the drysuit route in which case you'll probably need larger fins.