OOA and Situational Awareness...

[fxrguy]

It was not until I took a Fundies class with Bob Sherwood that I really begun to understand what good "gas management" skills really means.

How to determine exactly how much of the gas that you and your buddy are each carrying on this dive, it would actually require to safely return two divers from the max depth you are planning to dive.

And then NEVER touching that portion of this reserve during the dive.

It is a far cry from the "turn at 1500lbs" concept of much diving I was previously involved in. Doing the math the first time, was a REAL eye opener! :shocked2:

I would have to agree. As prepared as I thought I was, I let an incident happen, therefore, I was not prepared enough. Having said that though, incidents still happen and they happen, sometimes, to people that think they are prepared. This was the original point of the post. There can never be enough good training but I think that anyone who thinks that an OOA incident couldn't occur to them are kidding themselves.

 

[fxrguy]

Sounds absolutely terrifying! You allowed your buddy to use your second stage to ascend and them complete a safety stop from 90 Feet! WOW! I hate those damn jacket wearing clowns, when I dive with a guy wearing a BP/W I never even ask how much air he has, because I can tell he is safe just by his gear.

Sorry about your toes there dude!

 

[fxrguy]

To the OP, you are correct, the cause of the incident was the fault of both divers. Buddies should communicate between themselves frequently throughout a dive, keeping eachother abreast of their conditions. Becareful of getting so wrapped up in a dive or a task, that you don't know where your buddy is/ what they are doing. I had a diving buddy that has horrible (non- existant) buddy & situational awareness (I'm being very nice about this). There are many that will not dive with him because of this. He has been known to leave a buddy & not even realize for a long time. Very quickly, diving with him, I learned that when I do a dive with him, that I am essentially doing a solo dive & plan the dive accordingly, on my part. He asked me to help him out with an Adv. Nitrox/ Deco course he was doing. We were doing a deep dive going up an old quarry haul road (gentle slope). It was briefed before the dive that there could be some drills pop up during the dive. About 15 min. into the dive, I gave him an OOA light signal & he continued to swim. I chased him (right behind him) for 50- 75 ft, signalling with my light the entire time, before I stopped & went "unresponsive". He continued to swim for a couple of minutes before realizing I was not there & returning. I was originally going to make him take me to the surface as an unresponsive diver, but he ran into me with such force, I had to move to keep from getting completely clobbered. I aborted the dive at that point. When we got to the surface, I said nothing to him. He came up with an excuse that there was no way I could have been out of air at that point in the dive, so there was no reason for him to look back & check on me (he was leading the dive, per the plan). I still said nothing. After doffing our gear, he asked me if I was pissed. I asked him to get my phone for me. I then instructed him to call our instructor & my parents & tell them that he "killed" me because of his inattention. That seemed to make something in his head finally connect. After that episode, his situational/ buddy awareness improved vastly. He now checks back & constantly looks for signals.

BTW- Good job at keeping things together & getting the 2 of you safely to the surface.:blinking:

It's curious that your buddy denied that you could have been out of air. My brother had an equipment failure back in the early 80's and he had a similar incident with his buddy. His buddy claimed that he couldn't have been out of air or that he even had an equipment failure. He wasn't satisfied until he had personally checked out the gear himself. Maybe denial is part of the psychology of some people who screws up.

 

[TSandM]

My post wasn't to say that nobody screws up.

My post was to say that you shouldn't have to deal with more than one catastrophic failure. Your buddy's failure to monitor his gas (or, in another scenario, his freeflow, or his gauge failure) was one failure. But if you had had adequate gas reserves to deal with the air-sharing ascent, it's not an emergency. If you're low on gas, too, you've converted an inconvenience into a stressful situation.

One failure. But once it happens, everything to make it merely an annoyance should be in place.

 

[DevonDiver]

1) Run out of gas. STRIKE 1.

2) No immediate buddy support. STRIKE 2.

3) Too deep to ascend via CESA. STRIKE 3.

...and you're out!

Scratch up a victory for Darwin's Law...

---------------------------------------------

1) Run out of gas. STRIKE 1.

2) Buddy has insufficient gas to share for the ascent. STRIKE 2.

3) Too deep to ascend via CESA. STRIKE 3.

...and you're out!

Scratch up another victory for Darwin's Law...

 

[tstormdiver]

It's curious that your buddy denied that you could have been out of air. My brother had an equipment failure back in the early 80's and he had a similar incident with his buddy. His buddy claimed that he couldn't have been out of air or that he even had an equipment failure. He wasn't satisfied until he had personally checked out the gear himself. Maybe denial is part of the psychology of some people who screws up.

I agree. This buddy I was with has some definite ego issues & will make excuses for his mistakes. I knew it when I made the dive with him. That was why, on my part, I treated the dive as a solo dive, he wasn't reliable. His problem was that he "assumed" I should have plenty of air because I was in double cylinders. Of course, I had plenty of air, it was a drill. A drill that my buddy was told could happen on the dive. I personally teach my OW students from day 1 that the OOA signal is not to be ignored in any matter, from any diver. I basically instruct them to give air first & ask questions later. The same as when someone calls out "call 911". Its a potential life & death emergency & should be treated as such, no matter if the OOA diver is a buddy or not. If it is a spontaneous drill, then once on the surface, find out the issue,... underwater is not the appropriate place to be second guessing an emergency signal.

 

[fxrguy]

My post wasn't to say that nobody screws up.

My post was to say that you shouldn't have to deal with more than one catastrophic failure. Your buddy's failure to monitor his gas (or, in another scenario, his freeflow, or his gauge failure) was one failure. But if you had had adequate gas reserves to deal with the air-sharing ascent, it's not an emergency. If you're low on gas, too, you've converted an inconvenience into a stressful situation.

One failure. But once it happens, everything to make it merely an annoyance should be in place.

I guess for new divers there are so many distractions while on such a beautiful and exciting dive that it can be easy to get distracted. He lived another day to tell about it and hopefully learned something in the process.

 

[fxrguy]

I agree. This buddy I was with has some definite ego issues & will make excuses for his mistakes. I knew it when I made the dive with him. That was why, on my part, I treated the dive as a solo dive, he wasn't reliable. His problem was that he "assumed" I should have plenty of air because I was in double cylinders. Of course, I had plenty of air, it was a drill. A drill that my buddy was told could happen on the dive. I personally teach my OW students from day 1 that the OOA signal is not to be ignored in any matter, from any diver. I basically instruct them to give air first & ask questions later. The same as when someone calls out "call 911". Its a potential life & death emergency & should be treated as such, no matter if the OOA diver is a buddy or not. If it is a spontaneous drill, then once on the surface, find out the issue,... underwater is not the appropriate place to be second guessing an emergency signal.

Having gone through what guys like you try to teach and warn about, I can't commend you enough for taking OOA situations so seriously with you students. My instructor was also "very serious" about this part of the class and I should at least give him credit for getting us both back to the surface. If not for his training my buddy, or both of us, might not of made it that day. While I am proud of myself that when the dreaded OOA incident actually happened to me I didn't panic or become to frightened to assist, but was able to focus and do what was necessary. Whatever skills I had to manage the situation I owe to Joe Suchy, my OW instructor back in 1978.

 

[fxrguy]

I agree. This buddy I was with has some definite ego issues & will make excuses for his mistakes. I knew it when I made the dive with him. That was why, on my part, I treated the dive as a solo dive, he wasn't reliable. His problem was that he "assumed" I should have plenty of air because I was in double cylinders. Of course, I had plenty of air, it was a drill. A drill that my buddy was told could happen on the dive. I personally teach my OW students from day 1 that the OOA signal is not to be ignored in any matter, from any diver. I basically instruct them to give air first & ask questions later. The same as when someone calls out "call 911". Its a potential life & death emergency & should be treated as such, no matter if the OOA diver is a buddy or not. If it is a spontaneous drill, then once on the surface, find out the issue,... underwater is not the appropriate place to be second guessing an emergency signal.

I love this sport but there really are some ego's involved in it!

 

[Midget]

I will never dive with my ex dive buddy again due to his ego and failure to own or to learn from mistakes.
Diving is too dangerous of a sport to do with knuckle heads!