Only one type of gear? Why limit yourself?

[MXGratefulDiver]

Except for pink sh!t.

... some of my favorite dive buddies have been seriously into pink ... and I wouldn't, for the world, want them any other way ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I haven't met a single condition in which I'd have been better served by diving in backmount, yet according to this article, wrecks and short/shallow dives are two of those. Too bad I did both, and single tank is what I did most.

I have ... just two days ago, surfacing in building waves and having to walk out of the water in two sidemount steel 100's plus my camera. I managed it OK, but it would've been much easier in backmount.

There are some dive boats that are better designed for backmount, whether it's narrow gates that you have to giant-stride through (side-stride if you're in sidemount), or the design of the ladder, or pounding through rough conditions on a RIB, where you have to do the ride geared up and ready to go ... or getting back into that same RIB in those same conditions. That's not to say you can't do them in sidemount ... I have, and do ... but there are times I find myself in situations where a backmount rig would've simplified the situation. But if you have sidemount, you use it and deal with the drawbacks.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rivers]

I am very much in the "limited amount of gear" camp. I have, basically, 1.5 sets of kit- a twinset (with backplate, wing, and all the various accoutrements that go with it, plus a couple of stages) and a single tank wing (and ali backplate, which is for pool use only). For 99.9999% of my dives, I am in my twinset, whether that is fun dives, DMing, skills practice, etc. The only time my single tank wing comes out, is for one particular shore dive, which I might do once a year, or if I go somewhere on holiday for warm water, look at the pretty fish diving (which is even less so). Even then, if I'm in a single, I just re-arrange my regs for single tank diving. I don't do enough of it to warrant an extra set of regs (I already have plenty). Or a single cylinder even. I just hire or borrow one for the day. But, my configuration stays the same.
It works for me, and I can't justify having multiple sets of kit that might get used once a year.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Let's explore the opposite direction, just for the kicks. Assuming unlimited funds, and, just for a second, suspending any potential concerns about the negative impact on gear familiarity as a result of changing gear too often, what in your opinion would be the optimal composition of the diver's toolbox, specifically? Separate cold- and warm-water sidemount kits, multiple sets of back-mounted manifolded doubles with wings of varying sizes, a singles setup, a rebreather? More than one rebreather? Independent doubles? Jacket BCD? What would provide incremental benefits, however small, and what would be 100% superfluous?

In my case it's warm-water singles rig, cold water singles rig, warm-water doubles rig, cold water doubles rig. When I used backmount doubles that boiled down to two different size wings to accommodate either the steel 119's I used at home or the aluminum 80's you typically get on the road. Now, with sidemount it means two separate rigs. I've been diving a Nomad XT for a few years, and just got a Katana for my upcoming Red Sea trip. For singles, I have a steel plate (with plate weights) for cold water and an aluminum plate (with trim pockets on the harness) for warm water ... and I have a variety of singles wings ranging from 18 to 40 lbs of lift that I'll use, depending on the tank, exposure suit, etc. on a given dive. Same with exposure gear ... two drysuits with three different weight undergarments, a 5mm wetsuit, and a 3mm wetsuit.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[tbone1004]

Do you really think 2 liters is that much??? What size wing do you use and how many breaths does it take you to inflate it?

Let's explore the opposite direction, just for the kicks. Assuming unlimited funds, and, just for a second, suspending any potential concerns about the negative impact on gear familiarity as a result of changing gear too often, what in your opinion would be the optimal composition of the diver's toolbox, specifically? Separate cold- and warm-water sidemount kits, multiple sets of back-mounted manifolded doubles with wings of varying sizes, a singles setup, a rebreather? More than one rebreather? Independent doubles? Jacket BCD? What would provide incremental benefits, however small, and what would be 100% superfluous?

Shallow recreational diving-single tank backplate/wing, regulator configuration setup like the Dive Rite's Streamlined OW rig, i.e. the left post of a set of doubles.

Other recreational diving-doubles of some sort
sidemount-one mexico style for al80's and balanced rigs, one florida style for others.
rebreather
two DPV's, one long range cave, one light weight boat/backup
Drysuit
Wetsuit-probably 2 for different conditions

This somewhat looks like my gear. I have a plate with singles wing for the weird chance that I dive singles. Hasn't happened in years, but I can do it if I want. I have both kydex and SS plates depending on ballast needs
I have a doubles wing and independent doubles cam bands to put my sidemount tanks in without needing tools. I also have a normal set of doubles, but only take them if I know I will need them. I.e. boat/scientific diving. I disagree that sidemount is the optimal configuration for wreck diving, but that's personal preference. Those that do aren't wrong, just different.

I have two sidemount rigs depending on lift requirements, though the Katana is doing damn near all of my diving right now. At some point in the near future a CCR will be on the way and that will be sidemount due to cave diving, but with no money restriction I would have a Sidekick and Meg15.

I firmly disagree with jacket bc's, they honestly don't have any merits over a backplate and wing for any style of diving. Anyone who disagrees hasn't dove one that fits them properly, or is in a mentality of "comfy" with it and not wanting to change. No problem, but I truly see no scenario when a jacket is advantageous

 

[Neilwood]

Shallow recreational diving-single tank backplate/wing, regulator configuration setup like the Dive Rite's Streamlined OW rig, i.e. the left post of a set of doubles.

Other recreational diving-doubles of some sort
sidemount-one mexico style for al80's and balanced rigs, one florida style for others.
rebreather
two DPV's, one long range cave, one light weight boat/backup
Drysuit
Wetsuit-probably 2 for different conditions

This somewhat looks like my gear. I have a plate with singles wing for the weird chance that I dive singles. Hasn't happened in years, but I can do it if I want. I have both kydex and SS plates depending on ballast needs
I have a doubles wing and independent doubles cam bands to put my sidemount tanks in without needing tools. I also have a normal set of doubles, but only take them if I know I will need them. I.e. boat/scientific diving. I disagree that sidemount is the optimal configuration for wreck diving, but that's personal preference. Those that do aren't wrong, just different.

I have two sidemount rigs depending on lift requirements, though the Katana is doing damn near all of my diving right now. At some point in the near future a CCR will be on the way and that will be sidemount due to cave diving, but with no money restriction I would have a Sidekick and Meg15.

I firmly disagree with jacket bc's, they honestly don't have any merits over a backplate and wing for any style of diving. Anyone who disagrees hasn't dove one that fits them properly, or is in a mentality of "comfy" with it and not wanting to change. No problem, but I truly see no scenario when a jacket is advantageous

Just to reply to the bolded section - I know a few people who learned in jackets and feel they like being wrapped up in a jacket. I think it almost like a security blanket to them.

Personally I agree with your sentiments about jackets - if everyone was given the opportunity to dive a properly adjusted BP&W I reckon the proportions of sales (which I would guess as about 95% jacket/ 5% BP&W at the moment based on what I have seen) would switch almost overnight.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Personally I agree with your sentiments about jackets - if everyone was given the opportunity to dive a properly adjusted BP&W I reckon the proportions of sales (which I would guess as about 95% jacket/ 5% BP&W at the moment based on what I have seen) would switch almost overnight.

This has been discussed ad nauseum on SB in the past.
I agree to a point. If BP/W were hanging in a shop right next to jackets and the sales people pushed jackets then not much would change. At this point mostly men explore BP/W, and some women, but the women who do are more advanced than your average reef diver on vacation.
Now if the shop stocked BP/W first and foremost, and had all their instructors in them and trained OW students in them, then yes it would turn around instantly, but that's a hell of a commitment. The problem is I never see dive shops do that because the markup isn't there plus BP/W look intimidating to most customers whereas jackets are comfy and stylish (to new shoppers).
Also, big companies like SP and AL push jackets which are included in the shop's aggregate sales numbers which means they get better prices on gear overall. So why would they choose to dilute sales with a product that brings less percentage plus lasts a lifetime and will never need to be upgraded?
We nust need to get used to the fact that BP/W is a phenomenon of the internet and divers who search out alternative info besides what the dive shop feeds them will be the ones apt to know about it.

 

[tbone1004]

you hit the nail on the head on why jackets are popular, $$$. If BP/W's had the margin that Jackets do, then you would see more of them around. Intelligent shops who understand long term business planning know that having instructors and rental fleets of plates costs them much less money in the long run because they need fewer of them, and while the initial cost is more, the long term cost is much less. Some dive shops do train in plates.

The mfg's and dive shops don't want plates to take off because they are more expensive to make, and as such they make less money when they sell them, so they market them as for "technical divers" and all that crap.

You mention women, plates fit women better than most jackets because the harness and plate fit curves better. Shops and the equipment mfg's don't want you to know that a one piece harness fits lady curves better than any jacket they can come up with because they make less money. It's greedy and idiotic, but that is what the manufacturers want shops to sell, and as such that is all they know. It's stupid, but like I said above, I can't think of a single reason other than profit margin where jackets trump plates.

 

[urbaneve71]

We decided to make the best of it and dive Blue Heron Bridge. The only gear we had with us was back mounted doubles. Did we look funny diving in 25 feet of water in doubles? Yep! Was it a lot of work walking the doubles down to the water? Sure. Did we do the dive and had fun? Absolutely! Did we wish we had our single tank rigs? Oh we did! To this day I tell that story when I dive Blue Heron and always get a laugh. I'm glad the article is being read and the disagreement is a good thing. The primary take-away is that people are thinking about their decisions. It's not a good thing to allow ones self to be led blindly. When you truly understand why a D-ring on your equipment is where it is or when you make an adjustment because you know in advance the effect it will have then you've gained enough experience to be a good diver. Equipment configuration recommendations should be a part of every dive class. Savvy divers will take the recommendations, consider them and make decisions that are right for them.

im curious... if you thought diving BHP was a single tank dive, why did you not dive it. Having dove it before as a single tank, i couldnt imagine using double at 25' -- that being said -- let me make it clear, i do not dive doubles. i am just asking a question as to why you would do that.

while a majority of this thread is WAY over my head,all i see is disagreement and no simple definitive arguments as to why your argument is better than the persons before you. I see a lot of good points here and I have learned a lot and was hoping to learn more.
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second. for those you making the "pink" comment -- i hate pink, but i did have a pink BCD, mask, fins and they save my arse and the group i was diving with. we hit a batch of horrible silt and if it were not for those god awful pink gear, it would have been a mess of epic porpotions. so before you go knocking pink, take into consideration, they do have their place and time.

 

[Richard FDC]

im curious... if you thought diving BHP was a single tank dive, why did you not dive it. Having dove it before as a single tank, i couldnt imagine using double at 25' -- that being said -- let me make it clear, i do not dive doubles. i am just asking a question as to why you would do that.

while a majority of this thread is WAY over my head,all i see is disagreement and no simple definitive arguments as to why your argument is better than the persons before you. I see a lot of good points here and I have learned a lot and was hoping to learn more.
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second. for those you making the "pink" comment -- i hate pink, but i did have a pink BCD, mask, fins and they save my arse and the group i was diving with. we hit a batch of horrible silt and if it were not for those god awful pink gear, it would have been a mess of epic porpotions. so before you go knocking pink, take into consideration, they do have their place and time.

There is nothing wrong or dangerous about diving BHB in doubles. It's just overkill because the extra gas and redundancy are not necessary. The doubles did exactly what my single tank could have done but were just more work. I suppose there are some who would say we looked silly doing a 20' dive with all that gear but sometimes you just have to make things work with what you have. I've also been diving at Christ of the Abyss in Key Largo using doubles and that's not much more than a snorkel trip. We were in Key West doing some tech dives. The openwater divers with us wanted to see Christ of the Abyss. I only had my doubles so I used them and did the dive. Got some funny looks that day too This thread has been interesting. Ironically, last Sunday I was cave diving in North Florida using a new sidemount rig. I ran into one of the most capable and respected cave instructors. We were talking about my sidemount rig and he said what I always say, "It's just another tool in the tool box." That's the point of my article and I'll stick to it. If you are a serious diver diving in a variety of conditions you will find a need for a variety of equipment. That's why I just got a rebreather. My toolbox is becoming more complete. Now I'll sit back and wait for the attacks LOL Oh, BTW I think pink is a good color