Online Source for buying Simple Green

[Aquamaniac]

Dammit......SHHHHH!!!!!

 

[padiscubapro]

dmdalton once bubbled...


??????

Excuse me? NOAA who, if they did not invent enriched air diving, sure was at the forefront of it, uses and recommend simple green. All that is required is a degreasing agent that will remove hydrocarbons and not contribute any of it's own.

As O-ring said common dishwashing liquid or 409. I wonder who told him that!

Dave D

NOAA is not the manufacturer.. ASK them, They will state their product is not for oxygen cleaning.. I know I asked them (manufacturer of simple green)a few years ago.

From a professional standpoint, you can be held liable(at least in the US) if you promote anything contrary to manufactures recommendation.. If there is a problem.. get out your checkbook..

BLue Gold is sold for Oxygen Cleaning aplications..

I realize many people are using both 409 and simple green without problems, they are both non toxic degreasers but they are not sold for that intended purpose.

 

[dmdalton]

padiscubapro once bubbled...


NOAA is not the manufacturer.. ASK them, They will state their product is not for oxygen cleaning.. I know I asked them (manufacturer of simple green)a few years ago.

From a professional standpoint, you can be held liable(at least in the US) if you promote anything contrary to manufactures recommendation.. If there is a problem.. get out your checkbook..

BLue Gold is sold for Oxygen Cleaning aplications..

I realize many people are using both 409 and simple green without problems, they are both non toxic degreasers but they are not sold for that intended purpose.

You can indict a ham sandwich and you can sue anybody for anything, including not telling someone how hot their coffee is in case they spill in in their own lap as a result of putting the cup between their legs while driving.

Practically speaking someone would find it hard to win a suit that resulted in from injury incurred while following advice given on Scubaboard. If someone who is selling their advice, i.e. teaching, gives poor advice and someone is injured as a result of that advice, you might have a problem if you offer suggestions that you made up on your own. Possibly your liability insurance will only cover you if you preach the gospel as written by your certifying agency.

That being said NOAA Diving Manual, 4th Edition, page 15-18, under the heading of "Informal Oxygen Cleaning" is written:

"Informal oxygen cleaning is intended to clean euipment as clean as formal oxygen cleaning, but without the certification and documentation.

Generally, equipment should be cleaned of any visible debris and lubricant, then scrubbed or cleaned ultrasonically with a strong detergent in hot water, then rinsed several times in clean hot water. Good detergents are Crystal, Simple Green, Navy Oxygen Cleaner (NOC), Alconox and liquid detergents such as Joy or Dawn."

I would much rather stand up in court and point to the procedures and products recommend by NOAA than what is written in a PADI, ANDI, IANDT, or TDI manual. The fact that the manufacturer does not specify a given use for a product, does not mean it can't or shouldn't used for that purpose.

I'm going with NOAA.

Besides, I buy my Joy and Dawn in the oxygen cleaning asile of the grocery store and they are tinted green to be compatible for oxygen service.


Dave D

 

[dmdalton]

O-ring once bubbled...

Vance Harlow, page 11

No, I said "I wonder who told him that!" Not where did he later read it!

Dave D

 

[padiscubapro]

dmdalton once bubbled...


You can indict a ham sandwich and you can sue anybody for anything, including not telling someone how hot their coffee is in case they spill in in their own lap as a result of putting the cup between their legs while driving.

Practically speaking someone would find it hard to win a suit that resulted in from injury incurred while following advice given on Scubaboard. If someone who is selling their advice, i.e. teaching, gives poor advice and someone is injured as a result of that advice, you might have a problem if you offer suggestions that you made up on your own. Possibly your liability insurance will only cover you if you preach the gospel as written by your certifying agency.

That being said NOAA Diving Manual, 4th Edition, page 15-18, under the heading of "Informal Oxygen Cleaning" is written:

"Informal oxygen cleaning is intended to clean euipment as clean as formal oxygen cleaning, but without the certification and documentation.

Generally, equipment should be cleaned of any visible debris and lubricant, then scrubbed or cleaned ultrasonically with a strong detergent in hot water, then rinsed several times in clean hot water. Good detergents are Crystal, Simple Green, Navy Oxygen Cleaner (NOC), Alconox and liquid detergents such as Joy or Dawn."

I would much rather stand up in court and point to the procedures and products recommend by NOAA than what is written in a PADI, ANDI, IANDT, or TDI manual. The fact that the manufacturer does not specify a given use for a product, does not mean it can't or shouldn't used for that purpose.

I'm going with NOAA.

Besides, I buy my Joy and Dawn in the oxygen cleaning asile of the grocery store and they are tinted green to be compatible for oxygen service.


Dave D

I was aware of NOAA's statements and don't disagree in concept. First off the starter of the thread never stated if it was for personal use or more than that..

For oxygen cleaning issues I defer to the professionals like CGA and NASA. These people have much more experience with gas handling than anyone else.. Just because many in our industry (mainly in the us) don't listen to those more experienced in gas issues doesn't mean we all have to..

My next statement is not to be taken as a plug for ANDI so please don't take it that way.. Several manufactures including OCEANIC, MARES and LUXFER have in there service manuals and policies (I don't know if this is still true). State for nitrox use ANDI oxygen cleaning and handling practices must be followed.. ANDI's "official" policy is to follow all manufacturer's recommendations and use only approved cleaners and lubricants.

 

[dmdalton]

padiscubapro once bubbled...


I was aware of NOAA's statements and don't disagree in concept. First off the starter of the thread never stated if it was for personal use or more than that..

For oxygen cleaning issues I defer to the professionals like CGA and NASA. These people have much more experience with gas handling than anyone else..


My next statement is not to be taken as a plug for ANDI so please don't take it that way.. Several manufactures including OCEANIC, MARES and LUXFER have in there service manuals and policies (I don't know if this is still true). State for nitrox use ANDI oxygen cleaning and handling practices must be followed.. ANDI's "official" policy is to follow all manufacturer's recommendations and use only approved cleaners and lubricants.

I guess our 2 disagreements then would be:

1) l consider NOAA (not NASA or CGA) to be the professional organization with the most experience dealing with dive equipment utilized with EAN and cleaning for oxygen service and;

2) (while I don't consider you statement a plug for ANDI and realize that they have compiled some very good procedures) I question the motives of a equipment manufacturer that specifies that a particular training organization's procedures must be followed instead of specifying themselves the procedures that should be followed. Seems like they are either trying to dodge liability or are in bed with the training organization or both.

In the same way I question the motives of the dive equipment manufacturer that says their equipment is not suitable for EAN service regardless of how it is serviced.

Dave D

 

[DomRep Diving]

Well... as the original poster, this thread has taken another route... but I found an interesting part out of it...

dmdalton:
You said (or wrote? ) something about using Joy and Dawn? Because I was going to order Simple Green since no one brings it to my country, but I can find Dawn in the supermarket... I have even used it....

Can I go the "Dawn" way for o2 cleaning?

Btw... since you have all talked about the liability and everything... You will be no responsible for anything I do with this information nor with the product... Thanks! :mean:

 

[dmdalton]

DomRep Diving once bubbled...
dmdalton:
You said (or wrote? ) something about using Joy and Dawn? Because I was going to order Simple Green since no one brings it to my country, but I can find Dawn in the supermarket... I have even used it....

Can I go the "Dawn" way for o2 cleaning?

Yes, most any liquid hand dishwashing soap is fine. Dawn is specified in the NOAA Diving Manual as suitable for "Informal" cleaning for oxygen service the following is again a quote from their manual, page 15-18

"Informal oxygen cleaning is intended to clean euipment as clean as formal oxygen cleaning, but without the certification and documentation.

Generally, equipment should be cleaned of any visible debris and lubricant, then scrubbed or cleaned ultrasonically with a strong detergent in hot water, then rinsed several times in clean hot water. Good detergents are Crystal, Simple Green, Navy Oxygen Cleaner (NOC), Alconox and liquid detergents such as Joy or Dawn."

I personally use that type of detergent to clean for O2 service and everyone I know does the same. No problems to date in over 5 years.

I would suggest the Airspeed Press book for further details and to debunk much of the "black art" of O2 handling.

Best,

Dave D

 

[DomRep Diving]

Which Airspeed Press Book?
The Oxyhacker or the Reg Servicing one?
I guess they both have something about o2 cleaning....

 

[dmdalton]

DomRep Diving once bubbled...
Which Airspeed Press Book?
The Oxyhacker or the Reg Servicing one?
I guess they both have something about o2 cleaning....

Oxyhacker deals most deeply with handling of O2 in mixing gases, cleaning and such.

Dave D