Ongoing discussion of Ratio Deco

[Meng_Tze]

So Heather, when will we see a competitively priced ratio deco class locally....

 

[chickdiver]

So Heather, when will we see a competitively priced ratio deco class locally....

You won't. It has been discussed at NAUI Tec, but the consensus is that unlike the RGBM tables, there is no scientific validation of ratio deco, and therefor there will be no class (insurance and liability issues). That's why I was curious as to who the sanctioning agency was.

 

[rjack321]

No ones really "validated" a Pyle stop either, but deep stops seem pretty well established to me.

Anyway, in my Tech1 class with AG...
a good chunk of the time was spent comparing ratio deco profiles with official agency blessed decoplanner profiles (which was only buhlmann based at the time, 35/80 GFs as I recall).

Ala compare and contrast:
total time
where those stops were
and why.

I found it very valuable for understanding not just ratio but also gradient/M-value related issues too. Not sure how much would overlap with this seminar since we only covered 1 deco gas at a time.

So the lack of "scientific validation" is only because ratio is a mismash of deco principles that only loosely correlates to strictly mathematical approaches. Too many unstructured variables.

Whether it actually works or not is seperate issue from "scientific validation" IMO.

 

[rjchandler]

No ones really "validated" a Pyle stop either, but deep stops seem pretty well established to me.

Anyway, in my Tech1 class with AG...
a good chunk of the time was spent comparing ratio deco profiles with official agency blessed decoplanner profiles (which was only buhlmann based at the time, 35/80 GFs as I recall).

Ala compare and contrast:
total time
where those stops were
and why.

I found it very valuable for understanding not just ratio but also gradient/M-value related issues too. Not sure how much would overlap with this seminar since we only covered 1 deco gas at a time.

So the lack of "scientific validation" is only because ratio is a mismash of deco principles that only loosely correlates to strictly mathematical approaches. Too many unstructured variables.

Whether it actually works or not is seperate issue from "scientific validation" IMO.

How would you like to try this salad i just made. just a mismash of different mushrooms i found in the woods.

 

[amascuba]

How would you like to try this salad i just made. just a mismash of different mushrooms i found in the woods.

duuuuuuuuuuuddddddddddddddddeeeeeeeeeeee ... look at the colors ..... mmmmmmmaaaaaannnnnnnn.

 

[Jason B]

How would you like to try this salad i just made. just a mismash of different mushrooms i found in the woods.

Maybe you should re-read rjacks post. Specifically this part...

a good chunk of the time was spent comparing ratio deco profiles with official agency blessed decoplanner profiles (which was only buhlmann based at the time, 35/80 GFs as I recall).

Ala compare and contrast:
total time
where those stops were
and why.

 

[TSandM]

It fascinates me, how angry people get about a "non-validated" approach to deco. It implies that all the decompression software we have available is equally and satisfactorily validated. Does everybody realize this stuff doesn't really model the body? Does anybody know how many dives were done, under what conditions, and by whom, to validate DecoPlanner, or VPM, or GAP?

 

[nereas]

I have been using V-Planner for NDL and deco planning, and with its variable selections for conservativeness, I have had great success with it at the +3 setting.

I am not sure that I would be comfortable using a mental algorithm like the one referred to above.

I will defer to Max's view, below, on this particular issue:

If you read George Irvine's Gavin scooter list you would find several examples of GI arguing with AG over Ratio Deco. Irvine showed some examples of dives in the 250-300 feet range where ratio deco didn't come close to his minimum deco that he and J.J. came up with after years of diving Wakulla. J.J. said he told Andrew about minimum deco during a plane ride back from Europe but Andrew dumbed it down in such a way that GI says it should not be considered DIR.

 

[cool_hardware52]

It fascinates me, how angry people get about a "non-validated" approach to deco. It implies that all the decompression software we have available is equally and satisfactorily validated. Does everybody realize this stuff doesn't really model the body? Does anybody know how many dives were done, under what conditions, and by whom, to validate DecoPlanner, or VPM, or GAP?

Exactly. What I see is unwarranted faith in a methods that run on PC or Palmtop, and unwarranted suspicion of a method that uses your brain.


Tobin

 

[limeyx]

How would you like to try this salad i just made. just a mismash of different mushrooms i found in the woods.

Perhaps actually having an understanding of ratio deco would be a good idea before posting crap like this. Also, an understanding of what kind of dives have been planned and executed with it day in and day out, and the reasoning behind it.