One dead and one Missing at Buford Springs (FL, USA)

[Manatee Diver]

Personally I am putting my trust that the accident board will release a factual report in the next couple of weeks. This is their first opportunity to show the cave community that there is a changing attitude about accident analysis. So I am going to give them a chance and largely refrain for speculation until then.

 

[sprockjohnson]

There is a small cave system at Buford at approximately the 110-130 foot range and another smallish bedding plane near the 30 foot range. The bedding plane is probably only diveable using sidemount but the cave is open enough for backmount to enter/ exit. However, there is fine silt on everything down there including the downhill slope of the cavern floor that reduces visibility to almost zero when disturbed.

Might or might not be a factor, especially when combined with depth and darkness, but from personal experience it can get to almost zero visibility extremely quickly if someone's fins stir it up even for a moment.

 

[johndiver999]

The cave tunnel is only a couple hundred feet long. But that likely pretty close to the entrance of the tunnel. It might be possible to see the exit assuming good vis and bright sunlight. TBH we really should really have a sign at the big rock.

It is such a beautiful place when the sun is steaming down and illuminating that giant rock. I personally would hate to see the cathedral-like ambiance impaired by a stupid sign.

Put a sign up in the parking lot or something.

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

It is such a beautiful place when the sun is steaming down and illuminating that giant rock. I personally would hate to see the cathedral-like ambiance impaired by a stupid sign.

Put a sign up in the parking lot or something.

I remember my first time in an overhead environment, it was Dos Ojos Barbie Line. Half way through is the Barbie and a cave sign. I read that sign and I respected what it said and then I went out and got the gear and training I needed to be in that environment. I agree it takes away some of the beauty. But all divers deserve to know where the cave begins, especially an open water. They don't know what they don't know and that will kill them.

 

[grantctobin]

I personally would hate to see the cathedral-like ambiance impaired by a stupid sign.

Put a sign up in the parking lot or something.

Do you disagree with a need for a sign? Do you disagree with anything the line says? They’re typically placed at the end of the cavern zone. Frankly, because of the depth and the shape of the site itself, most of Buford is a cave and not an “open water safe cavern,” (if that can exist), a la Blue Grotto, Ballroom at Ginnie, etc.

Here’s a relevant thread that shows similar nincompoopery: https://scubaboard.com/community/threads/pair-of-untrained-divers-reckless-at-buford.605587/

 

[johndiver999]

Do you disagree with a need for a sign? Do you disagree with anything the line says? They’re typically placed at the end of the cavern zone. Frankly, because of the depth and the shape of the site itself, most of Buford is a cave and not an “open water safe cavern,” (if that can exist), a la Blue Grotto, Ballroom at Ginnie, etc.

Here’s a relevant thread that shows similar nincompoopery: https://scubaboard.com/community/threads/pair-of-untrained-divers-reckless-at-buford.605587/

No, to be honest, my personal opinion is that a sign placed in the streaming sunlight area would be very ugly and would not effectively address the need for people to exercise good judgement.

The rock fell from the ceiling and is pretty close to straight down form the entrance to the open water.

 

[SlugLife]

Given a bad buddy you may be better off alone? This line of reasoning is why I haven't gone diving with a friend that I know has the bare minimum standard agency training.

I don't want to get too far off-topic, but my own (100% personal) actions or opinion really depends on context:

• The primary deal-killer for me is mostly around dive-buddy attitude and attentiveness, not experience or training.
• Next, it depends on whether I have an objective, or am "just diving." If I have an objective, I don't want to baby-sit. If it's just a dive where I'm checking equipment or practicing a few skills at a dive-park I've been to before, I'll happily dive with someone who has almost zero experience, and do a casual 30ft dive. (there's more, but I'm keeping this brief)
• Finally, if the planned dive is something like overhead environments ,caves, night-diving, etc, then the person might have the appropriate training, equipment, or experience.

If I had a reliable dive-buddy, I might go with that. However, otherwise I generally refer solo. Hell, plenty of my dives, I'm digging through muck or weeds for sunglasses in inches of visibility, and the few times I have buddy-dived that, I don't find anything and spend most of the dive trying to not lose the dive-buddy.

 

[Manatee Diver]

No, to be honest, my personal opinion is that a sign placed in the streaming sunlight area would be very ugly and would not effectively address the need for people to exercise good judgement.

The rock fell from the ceiling and is pretty close to straight down form the entrance to the open water.

The sign is there to notify people that they are crossing over to the cave zone. Also that rock is well under the overhead due to the hourglass shape of the cavern zone. Add in the fact that the cavern zone ends at 100ft per most agency standards.

And I do think that there should be a sign at the dock with a more in depth warning.

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

Personally I am putting my trust that the accident board will release a factual report in the next couple of weeks. This is their first opportunity to show the cave community that there is a changing attitude about accident analysis. So I am going to give them a chance and largely refrain for speculation until then.

I was at the NSS-CDS conference. I seem to remember the accident analysis group say they would post a report once a year, but I could be misremembering. If once a year, I don't imagine we'll see a report in a few weeks.

 

[Manatee Diver]

I was at the NSS-CDS conference. I seem to remember the accident analysis group say they would post a report once a year, but I could be misremembering. If once a year, I don't imagine we'll see a report in a few weeks.

That was the speculative reports with the likely cause. I talked to Jon a couple of weeks ago at Ginnie, and he agreed that factual reports should be released fairly quickly to tamp down on the random speculation that we were getting. At that point comparing the speculation behind the recent death vs the 2021 death where a mostly factual report was released within days.