On Verge Of Panic!!!

[DA Aquamaster]

You went to 140' without a gas plan on what I presume to be an AL80
You had sinus problems before hand that you knew about
You penetrated a wreck without the proper training
and your profile says you have 0-24 dives

This is pretty much a "Deco Stop" response. If the OP were playing in traffic over there, I'd expect him to get flamed and have no real remorse for him as that is not the way technical dive would be conducted.

But this is Scubaboard and he is a recreational diver posting what he learned in the "near misses" forum and, like it or not, that kind of planning and execution of a dive is not all that uncommon, so there is real value in him posting his experiences and his mistakes. He does not deserve to get flamed for it.

I agree with the points you made but your presentation is less than wonderful. If you are going to get in the habit of telling people, for example, to go to hell, try to develop the tact and poise needed to do so in a manner that they actually look forward to the trip.

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With regard to sinus blocks, if you descend until you feel pain, you have already descended way too far without clearning. That is pretty obvious, but what is less obvious is the impact of descending to the bottom and staying there - just a few feet below where you last cleared. That slight but not yet painful pressure is enough over the course of a dive to seriously plug things up and will cause swelling that becomes problematic on that dive and on subsequent dives. So if you are having problems clearning at all, clear on the surface, clear every couple of feet on descent, clear on the bottom and then clear every few minutes there after if you have any doubt about how well things are equalizing on their own.

 

[StreetDoctor]

NO GAS PLAN!!!! OMG your right I did put that in there? Oh wait did I? ****

I presumed you didn't have a gas plan because if you did you wouldn't be doing a dive to 140' with a single AL80. Some quick rough math in my head tells me rock bottom for a 140' dive with a single AL80 is 2400 psi WITHOUT considering any overhead. Which gives you 600psi of useable gas.

Let me know your best way of training for a wreck....I would love to hear what you have to say for that. I am sure your just full of useful info.

I would have the proper gear first. Doubles with the proper amount of gas. Backup buoyancy redundancy in the form of a drysuit. Once I was comfortable diving that I'd take a beginner and advanced wreck diving class that will teach you proper gas management, planning, use of running line, lost line drills, OOG situations while on a line, etc. Most of these classes require a minimum of 50 dives, nitrox certification, and an extensive gear list including what I listed above plus a good cannister light. During the class these skills would begin in shallow open water and then progress to deeper dives around a wreck but still no where near 140'. To penetrate a wreck at 140' I'd have to be trained to at least advanced nitrox/deco procedures due to the short no deco time.

Although I openly admit lol, this wasn't the time to do it....
I always have sinus issues. I try to deal with them properly. The descent went on with no problems at all. I think reverse blockag is pretty uncommon. I would assume you will usually know if your having sinus issues before you get to 30ft. I can usually tell at about 10ft.

I know I have sinus issues before I begin the dive, if bad enough I call the dive before I get in the water. As other people have said you can ruin your diving career real easy by messing up your ears or sinus'.

SSoooooo thanks a lot for responding. Oh btw what if my profile said I have 1000 dives?? I think it is tools like you that make it difficult to believe wether or not one is being honst or bumping up their experience a little to show others how much knowledge they have.

Although the number of dives you have has nothing to do with how good of a diver you are, it can be used as a good judge of experience and with what you've posted already it's obviously you aren't ready yet! It also shows you've been certified for 2 years and have 0-24 dives. At very best you're averaging 1 dive a month. That's no where near enough in water time to be proficient at anything. If you had 500 dives and haven't dove in 5 years and tried this dive I'd say the same thing. Personally I'm not the scuba police and I don't care what you do but when your wrecklessness gets you killed and then the authorities that do have power ban wreck penetration it ruins it for everyone else.

Good luck.

 

[StreetDoctor]

This is pretty much a "Deco Stop" response. If the OP were playing in traffic over there, I'd expect him to get flamed and have no real remorse for him as that is not the way technical dive would be conducted.

But this is Scubaboard and he is a recreational diver posting what he learned in the "near misses" forum and, like it or not, that kind of planning and execution of a dive is not all that uncommon, so there is real value in him posting his experiences and his mistakes. He does not deserve to get flamed for it.

I agree with the points you made but your presentation is less than wonderful. If you are going to get in the habit of telling people, for example, to go to hell, try to develop the tact and poise needed to do so in a manner that they actually look forward to the trip.

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With regard to sinus blocks, if you descend until you feel pain, you have already descended way too far without clearning. That is pretty obvious, but what is less obvious is the impact of descending to the bottom and staying there - just a few feet below where you last cleared. That slight but not yet painful pressure is enough over the course of a dive to seriously plug things up and will cause swelling that becomes problematic on that dive and on subsequent dives. So if you are having problems clearning at all, clear on the surface, clear every couple of feet on descent, clear on the bottom and then clear every few minutes there after if you have any doubt about how well things are equalizing on their own.

I apologize and I've posted a more defined response. You would think some things are just common sense...

 

[OnceLoyal]

Thank you for the responses. I expected to get hamered but not insulted or have people jump to conclusions when they have no idea what the whole situation was.. I take corrective critism very well. I actually have about 20 dives from about 12 years ago, but I never got certified. I just recently got back into it and went to get certified. I have 14 logged dives since. I have a lot to learn. I got myself out of the snagged situation before the DM even knew what happened. This was a very controlled and organized dive. I just should've declined the semi penetration at my level at that depth. I have learned from my mistakes... My origional instructor was very thorough and of course I immediately called him and discussed the situation... I would'nt want to repeat this situation, but as stated before I am happy I went through it to know how I react when situations can go wrong so fast. We learn from our mstakes. I will probably keep my dives to a max of 50Ft or so until I can figure out the best course of actions for my sinus issues. Which is chronic sinusitus. Kind of a congestion without the mucus. I think I am physically addicted to nasal spray at this point which aggravates my current situation. I thank you again for the comments.

 

[OnceLoyal]

BTW just a reminder... I am not having any problem clearing. I clear on the descents just fine. I have no discomfort at all. I clear probably every 5-6 feet.

We did have a decent briefing before we entered that water. We had all our stops and did have a safety bottle in the water.

 

[dmoore19]

Not trying to be critical but I have a lot of questions about what you did.

I have been trained to thumb a dive if you are congested. I am surprised that a DM would have condoned a dive of this level much less accompany you. Let alone the fact that he knew you had what sounds like some pretty severe congestion. At least that how I was trained. Looking back do you think you should have thumbed the dive?

You are AOW with <24 dives? WOW, I have only a few dives more than you and don't have that Certification. I am still trying to be efficient with the tasks required for a 60' dive. I am not ready to go further than that or to seek training to do that until I am completely comfortable with the training I have received to this point. I guess you must be a natural in the water. What abilities do you have that made your decision to make a dive of this difficulty?

140 fsw, Isn't that beyond your certification level? I thought that would take a Tech certification to even think about a dive to that depth. Do you think that narcosis could have played a role in your feeling of panic? Though I have limited information regarding this, what I have been taught is that Narcosis is very possible and can play a role in the situation you describe for panic. Doesn't 140' require some Deco planning? Doesn't it also require some fairly extensive gas planning? A quick glace at some tables that are on my watch band say 10 min NDL for a 140' dive. Does this type of dive require some sort of surface support for possible complications? Was there any kind of surface support in place?

What was the water temp at 140'? Was a shorty enough thermal protection? Isn't it normal to have a full suit on for wreck diving to avoid being injured from cuts, abrasions and attacks from stinging critters? Do you think water temp or vis played a role in your panic?

I am just curious about the whole thing. I just wonder if after having done this you think you were actually prepared and properly trained to take on a dive with the technical aspects that are involved. I am PADI certified and wonder if NAUI training is more extensive.

 

[DCBC]

I am PADI certified and wonder if NAUI training is more extensive.

Historically this has been the case.

 

[dmoore19]

Historically this has been the case.

I think I will search this and if it is not there I will post a thread in a different subject area. Thanks

 

[300bar]

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[StreetDoctor]

Not trying to be critical but I have a lot of questions about what you did.

I have been trained to thumb a dive if you are congested. I am surprised that a DM would have condoned a dive of this level much less accompany you. Let alone the fact that he knew you had what sounds like some pretty severe congestion. At least that how I was trained. Looking back do you think you should have thumbed the dive?

You are AOW with <24 dives? WOW, I have only a few dives more than you and don't have that Certification. I am still trying to be efficient with the tasks required for a 60' dive. I am not ready to go further than that or to seek training to do that until I am completely comfortable with the training I have received to this point. I guess you must be a natural in the water. What abilities do you have that made your decision to make a dive of this difficulty?

140 fsw, Isn't that beyond your certification level? I thought that would take a Tech certification to even think about a dive to that depth. Do you think that narcosis could have played a role in your feeling of panic? Though I have limited information regarding this, what I have been taught is that Narcosis is very possible and can play a role in the situation you describe for panic. Doesn't 140' require some Deco planning? Doesn't it also require some fairly extensive gas planning? A quick glace at some tables that are on my watch band say 10 min NDL for a 140' dive. Does this type of dive require some sort of surface support for possible complications? Was there any kind of surface support in place?

What was the water temp at 140'? Was a shorty enough thermal protection? Isn't it normal to have a full suit on for wreck diving to avoid being injured from cuts, abrasions and attacks from stinging critters? Do you think water temp or vis played a role in your panic?

I am just curious about the whole thing. I just wonder if after having done this you think you were actually prepared and properly trained to take on a dive with the technical aspects that are involved. I am PADI certified and wonder if NAUI training is more extensive.

Gas planning should really be done on all dives. I don't know what you covered in your OW class but the "be back onboard with 500psi" really doesn't work. You need to be able to have enough air at the deepest portion of your dive to safely get you and your buddy to the surface and still complete your safety stops.

Rock bottom formula assuming each diver is breathing 1 cu ft/min

Diagnose the problem- 1 min x Depth in atmospheres x 2cu. ft.
Ascent to deepstop- assume 33'/min ascent rate x avg depth in atmospheres x 2cu ft
deepstop- 1min x depth in astmospheres x 2 cu ft
ascent to 20'- assume 33'/min ascent rate x avg depth in atmospwheres x 2cu ft
safety stop at 20' - 3min x 1.6 (depth in atmospheres) x 2 cu ft

Add up your total cubic feet and divide that number by the tank size x rated pressure

Then add 200 for safety.



For example a dive to 140' with a single aluminum 80.

Problem 1 x 5.11 x 2 = 10.22 rounded to 10
Ascent to deep stop 2 x 4.08 x 2= 16
Deep stop 1 x 3.05 x 2= 6
Ascent to 20&#8217; 2 x 2.47 x 2= 10
20&#8217; stop 3 x 1.58 x 2 = 9
Ascent 1 x 1.29 x 2 = 2.6 rounded to 3


54/77.4x3000= 2093psi rounded to 2100 + 200 = 2300 psi rock bottom. Which actually gives you 700 psi of gas to use during your dive. Probably enough to get to the bottom of the mooring line, look around for a minute and then start your ascent.

If you're on a wreck and there's a strong current where you must return to your up line to not risk getting blown off the wreck you might also add 6 minutes at depth to get back to the line.

6 minutes x 5.11 x 2 = 61.32cu ft of gas add that to the number above

116/77.4x3000 = not enough gas

Makes doing a dive like this not feasible on a single AL80