On recreational divers with pseudo-tech equipment

[sunnyboy]

... It's the ones who are decked out in pretty reasonable looking gear, technical or recreational, who don't immediately stand out or draw attention/ire, who you need to be careful about.

Um, er... pardon?

You've just described the attributes of some of the best divers.

???

-S

 

[Gombessa]

Um, er... pardon?

You've just described the attributes of some of the best divers.

???

-S

My point is that someone who looks like an accident waiting to happen can be corrected or avoided (or approached and determined to be quite skilled, despite appearances). Someone who looks sorted out will probably not be questioned, and that is the more dangerous scenario for everyone involved.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I guess we are in the mode of bashing the ungrateful Mexican divemaster/instructor..... I found the story amusing and sad. The only real criticism I have is that if the guy really did have a ton of lead then the DM should NOT have allowed him to dive with it.

I myself had a customer with way too much lead. I tried hard to politely convince him it was too much. Talked to his buddy and tried to get him to influence his buddy (to no avail) and then finally I climbed to the bridge and told the capt. that I was refusing to lead the dive if the suicidal clown did not drop a bunch of lead off his belt.

The guy fiinally got the picture.

 

[RAWalker]

Seems to me the diver described was a jerk who needs to work on basic skills and understanding of both buoyancy skills and underwater conservation.Then after developing both maybe rethink the equipment choices and adjust the gear based on a better understanding of their true needs.
But I also think the OP has some other issues underlying that caused him to take aim at the gear as the problem. I myself dive a hybrid tech/rec kit using BP&W with a standard reg and inflator/octo. I'm very concerned with aquatic conservation and active in Project AWARE I have done multiple cleanup dives and when diving on reefs take great care to leave it as I have found it.
It may have done more good to discuss the obvious problems the diver had and how to overcome them. Hint that although his gear contains some great pieces they may not be an appropriate kit for the location he is diving. Teach him that the damage he does touching the coral spoils the reef and can take many years to recover. Show him spots to touch down safely to take care of minor problems.
The OP was talking about taking down a group so I'm assuming he is DM level or higher. I would think to be successful at that level you'd have to deal with students with differing learning and communications skills. Whether you are getting paid for your advice or not you'd be protecting the dive site, the unskilled diver and others divers by advancing this divers knowledge and skills. You can complain about it or do something about it!

 

[almitywife]

I guess we are in the mode of bashing the ungrateful Mexican divemaster/instructor..... I found the story amusing and sad. The only real criticism I have is that if the guy really did have a ton of lead then the DM should NOT have allowed him to dive with it.

I myself had a customer with way too much lead. I tried hard to politely convince him it was too much. Talked to his buddy and tried to get him to influence his buddy (to no avail) and then finally I climbed to the bridge and told the capt. that I was refusing to lead the dive if the suicidal clown did not drop a bunch of lead off his belt.

The guy fiinally got the picture.

can i ask how much lead you consider suicidal??

im a big gal & 6ft tall and carry about 8lbs with a steel tank. a friend of mine is 5ft nothing and tiny and carries about 20lbs with a steel tank (i was shocked by this btw). she is quite experience and has continued her training so she isnt loading up on lead for the sake of it - its just what she has to carry for her body

how can you look at someone youve never dived with before and make such a judgement??

cheers

 

[zerogravity89]

I guess we are in the mode of bashing the ungrateful Mexican divemaster/instructor..... I found the story amusing and sad. The only real criticism I have is that if the guy really did have a ton of lead then the DM should NOT have allowed him to dive with it.

I myself had a customer with way too much lead. I tried hard to politely convince him it was too much. Talked to his buddy and tried to get him to influence his buddy (to no avail) and then finally I climbed to the bridge and told the capt. that I was refusing to lead the dive if the suicidal clown did not drop a bunch of lead off his belt.

The guy fiinally got the picture.

Trust me the guy leading him was trying to convince him to drop some of it.


Sorry if I put the story in the wrong place, wasn't quite sure where it should go. It wasn't just about the equipment, it was more about having proper training to further your dive skills. Sadly the story is entirely true. I know i came off a bit harsh with words like "hate". And I know that I still have much to learn (and I realise that in diving I will never stop learning), but I do consider buoyancy a very important skill, which should be taught properly to Open Water students from the very beginning. Regarding this diver, while he is at 14 meters he may "only" be destroying the reef, when he attempts some more challenging dives in the future (which he will, probably well beyond the level of his training and experience) he may well cost someone their life. It is more my frustration (hence the word "hate", i don't really hate the guy) over the resort setting that I work in, because there is next to nothing I can do about it. The guy only did one dive with us, and after that he is going home. People come and then leave just like that. If you get someone like that, there is no way I can spend time with him to try and help him correct his mistakes. Before my job in Mexico I worked in a real dive shop, as opposed to a resort shop (which isn't really a shop at all, its just a money-making machine). You could take your time with people. Here there is no time. Especially not if people aren't willing to listen in the first place. I haven't beenhere all that long, but already I am looking to move on, because I really don't like teaching in this way.

So sorry for putting this post in the wrong place or even posting it in the first place. I realise this is an internet forum and whatever anyone says is always going to get lots of criticism. I would like to thank those with constructive posts for their input and I wish you all safe diving.

 

[wedivebc]

I'm surprised you could hear what he had to say when you were all the way up there on that high horse.
His money, his diving...f'ck all to do with anyone else.

Yeah, I'm with you on this one

 

[IceBergSlim]

Let me start with his equipment. I happened to sit near him on the boat and had lots of time to ask him about it. He was wearing a backplate and wing (made by OMS), with bungee-straps all over the place (half of them over the wing, the other half holding his array of gear in place). The wing was huge, with enough lift to raise the titanic. I asked him what it was for (does he dive with doubles and stage bottles), he said "no, only a single tank, but its a good jacket".

OMS is not "pseudo-tech" equipment.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

can i ask how much lead you consider suicidal??

im a big gal & 6ft tall and carry about 8lbs with a steel tank. a friend of mine is 5ft nothing and tiny and carries about 20lbs with a steel tank (i was shocked by this btw). she is quite experience and has continued her training so she isnt loading up on lead for the sake of it - its just what she has to carry for her body

how can you look at someone youve never dived with before and make such a judgement??

cheers

After thousands of dives you can just tell. As I recall, I got the guy down to about 14-15 lbs with a bathing suit and an aluminum tank and he was not fat and probably 175-190 lbs. He had like 24 lbs or so to start. I knew he needed no more than 12 lbs.


The term suicidal is extreme, but my assumption is that if the guy is this clueless about something basic like weighting and he won't listen to me, then I am not going to be doing a 100 foot drift dive onto a shipwreck with him. I've dove with all kinds of crazy people and retarded people, physically handicapped people, people that were emotional wrecks, but I do draw the line somewhere.

 

[Rick Inman]

I've dove with all kinds of crazy people and retarded people...

I have two autistic grandchildren, so when you say retarded and crazy, is that what you mean, or are you referring to "normal" people who act the fool? I also have a dive buddy who is mentally challenged, and he is one of the most reasonable, skilled divers I know. Takes him forever to learn a skill, but once he has it, he has it. In fact, I did a surprise OOG on him last night and his response was textbook. I am really proud of him. Oh, and BTW, he is a recreational diver who dives doubles and a BP/W, so maybe he's smarter than we think.