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OLED Wrist vs OLED Console Dive Computers...
- Thread starter Lucifer911
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It's only a choice if your computer supports the feature. I have a Galileo and I disabled most of the audible alarms on it. Most, but not all. Sometimes I want an attention grabber. While a flashing screen might gitter done inside of a dark cave, it's not very effective in shallow open water.
Hi Craig
I don't think anyone has ever said I have a neat dive world before, too many variables normally and too many agencies. Yes, I should have made more effort on the spell check.
Understanding of decompression algorithms is generally poor for the majority of divers. I am very rusty myself these days.
One of the things that impressed me about PADI Dive Master was the section on decompression. It is a good simple explanation of how decompression algorithms work. I would like to see something similar in the main DTP of BSAC. Although a deeper explanation of decompression theory is covered by most agencies when you transition into what used to be called technical diving.
I am still surprised that you feel the more technical range of computers (Shearwater and OSTC in particular) are as conservative as the likes of Suunto, Uwatec, Mares, etc). One advantage of the technical computers is that they can be made very aggressive or very conservative. Or, if you have a mind, you can change the algorithm you are using or replace the factory algorithm with your own model (although that may only be the OSTC these days).
I do have to agree that I tend not to think in terms of NDL diving.
But then, I think you are far safer doing a compulsory decompression dive on a conservative algorithm than an NDL dive on an aggressive algorithm. Strangely enough that goes although the way back to my original PADI instructor - even though PADI didn't and don't really approve of decompression diving.
I am also happy to admit that I don't spend much time looking at the available dive computers on the market these days, or their particular algorithm's.
My original Suunto Solution is far more aggressive than the Vyper. The Monitor 3 was far more aggressive than the suunto's. The Suunto's where more aggressive than the Aladin Pro. The later generations of the Aladin's where far more conservative than the Aladin Pro and Sport. The Sport was truly frightening. If you ran out of NDL it just said you can't ascend beyond a ceiling, and you had to wait for it to decide you had decompressed sufficiently to move up to a new ceiling / surface. The VR3 was very aggressive (until you got the settings right), I know a few who experienced the joys of a helicopter ride after surfacing. That said the VR3 was ground breaking, although the menu structure was very confusing.
I will read the thread with interest.
Gareth
I don't think anyone has ever said I have a neat dive world before, too many variables normally and too many agencies. Yes, I should have made more effort on the spell check.
Understanding of decompression algorithms is generally poor for the majority of divers. I am very rusty myself these days.
One of the things that impressed me about PADI Dive Master was the section on decompression. It is a good simple explanation of how decompression algorithms work. I would like to see something similar in the main DTP of BSAC. Although a deeper explanation of decompression theory is covered by most agencies when you transition into what used to be called technical diving.
I am still surprised that you feel the more technical range of computers (Shearwater and OSTC in particular) are as conservative as the likes of Suunto, Uwatec, Mares, etc). One advantage of the technical computers is that they can be made very aggressive or very conservative. Or, if you have a mind, you can change the algorithm you are using or replace the factory algorithm with your own model (although that may only be the OSTC these days).
I do have to agree that I tend not to think in terms of NDL diving.
But then, I think you are far safer doing a compulsory decompression dive on a conservative algorithm than an NDL dive on an aggressive algorithm. Strangely enough that goes although the way back to my original PADI instructor - even though PADI didn't and don't really approve of decompression diving.
I am also happy to admit that I don't spend much time looking at the available dive computers on the market these days, or their particular algorithm's.
My original Suunto Solution is far more aggressive than the Vyper. The Monitor 3 was far more aggressive than the suunto's. The Suunto's where more aggressive than the Aladin Pro. The later generations of the Aladin's where far more conservative than the Aladin Pro and Sport. The Sport was truly frightening. If you ran out of NDL it just said you can't ascend beyond a ceiling, and you had to wait for it to decide you had decompressed sufficiently to move up to a new ceiling / surface. The VR3 was very aggressive (until you got the settings right), I know a few who experienced the joys of a helicopter ride after surfacing. That said the VR3 was ground breaking, although the menu structure was very confusing.
I will read the thread with interest.
Gareth
hammet
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Lucifer911
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I have watched perfectly good reviews on youtube about certain computers and there are still thumbs down or negative comments. You are delusional if you think someone won't leave a negative review because fear of competition. If you don't have anything helpful to post then stay silent. Its one reason why amazon uses a verified purchase requirement before posting review.
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Hi Gareth,
I did not mean my previous post to be antagonistic, I apologize if you perceived it as such.
I never said all deco algorithms were created equal. The RGBM algorithms (Suunto, Mares, Cressi) are consistently among the most conservative. Some, like DSAT and Atomic RGBM, are quite liberal, and a match for Buhlmann ZH-L16C at a GF hi at the top end of the range. Of course, diving Buhlmann with GF is nearly infinitely flexible and can be adjusted to anywhere in the spectrum.
The OP is a beginner diver and the inquiry was about recreational diving
Very best and good diving,
Craig
I did not mean my previous post to be antagonistic, I apologize if you perceived it as such.
I never said all deco algorithms were created equal. The RGBM algorithms (Suunto, Mares, Cressi) are consistently among the most conservative. Some, like DSAT and Atomic RGBM, are quite liberal, and a match for Buhlmann ZH-L16C at a GF hi at the top end of the range. Of course, diving Buhlmann with GF is nearly infinitely flexible and can be adjusted to anywhere in the spectrum.
The OP is a beginner diver and the inquiry was about recreational diving
Very best and good diving,
Craig
No Problem Craig
There are two particular issues that concern me about beginners using 'technical computers'. The primary concern is the infinitely flexible, if you don't understand what you are doing, you can end up with a very aggressive setting. That may have very adverse results for some peoples health. (Having seen those who supposedly know what they are doing end up with an overly aggressive setting and end up in the pot).
The second, is for a new diver, the pace of change in the computer market is such that by the time they progress to 'using' the facilities (Trimix, CCR etc), newer models would probably be much better suited to their requirements. Thats assuming they ever become part of the 10% of qualified divers that have an interest in this type of diving (the % is a number I've plugged out of the air).
Many of those who qualify as divers stop diving or never progress beyond AOW. (I am not sure of the drop out rate).
Even those who qualify and continue to dive over the next 5 - 10 years, a very small percentage move on to technical diving.
A 'cheaper' standard computer would much better suit the majority of 'new' divers. They can then spend the money saved on going diving
.That said, as I mentioned previously, I don't really worry about the best NDL times. I think its much safer running conservative settings and having to do compulsory stops, than running aggressive setting to maximise the NDL. If NDL is dictating your dive time, and you are not allowed or won't do compulsory decompression - USE NITROX. Its not the 80's anymore, air is not the only available diving gas, and Nitrox is no longer consider to dangerous for mortals to use.
Gareth
(The capitals are not supposed to be to aggressive
)
The problem I see with most of the cheaper computers is not their lack of ability to be used for technical diving. The problem is usually some combination of bad display, bad input options, bad "lockout rules" or bad algorithm or perhaps even a combination of these. The result? Diver gets to a small comfort level, maybe after his second or third year (maybe less if they're super active) and then hits one of these limitations. Now they're stuck buying a second computer. If they had bought the right computer first, they wouldn't be facing the prospect of replacing something they spent hundreds of dollars on not so long ago.No Problem Craig
There are two particular issues that concern me about beginners using 'technical computers'. The primary concern is the infinitely flexible, if you don't understand what you are doing, you can end up with a very aggressive setting. That may have very adverse results for some peoples health. (Having seen those who supposedly know what they are doing end up with an overly aggressive setting and end up in the pot).
The second, is for a new diver, the pace of change in the computer market is such that by the time they progress to 'using' the facilities (Trimix, CCR etc), newer models would probably be much better suited to their requirements. Thats assuming they ever become part of the 10% of qualified divers that have an interest in this type of diving (the % is a number I've plugged out of the air).
Many of those who qualify as divers stop diving or never progress beyond AOW. (I am not sure of the drop out rate).
Even those who qualify and continue to dive over the next 5 - 10 years, a very small percentage move on to technical diving.
A 'cheaper' standard computer would much better suit the majority of 'new' divers. They can then spend the money saved on going diving
That said, as I mentioned previously, I don't really worry about the best NDL times. I think its much safer running conservative settings and having to do compulsory stops, than running aggressive setting to maximise the NDL. If NDL is dictating your dive time, and you are not allowed or won't do compulsory decompression - USE NITROX. Its not the 80's anymore, air is not the only available diving gas, and Nitrox is no longer consider to dangerous for mortals to use.
Gareth
(The capitals are not supposed to be to aggressive
Certainly some of these are tied to brands rather than "technical" vs "recreational" computers. Suunto is one such example. Even the EON steel with 10 gas support is stuck with suunto's algorithm. It also has lockouts that are horribly configured and unchangeable.
My point? I think the ability of a computer to do tech is largely irrelevant. I suggest computers that are easy to read, easy to use (I'm scowling at all the 1 button units out there), are configurable, and won't ruin your dive trip. Most of the tech computers I have seen do not require a manual to figure out how to set your nitrox mix and dive. Most "cheap" "recreational" computers I've seen require a lengthy look at the manual or even a class in order to operate. Mostly this is due to poorly written UI and lack of input options. If you don't set things right, then end up with a computer that says you're in deco when you shouldn't be? You're either going to ruin your whole dive trip by ending your diving or do something worse like switch to another computer for the remainder of the trip and ignore your residual nitrogen. Wouldn't it be better to have a unit that just calculates things correctly instead of deciding to punish the guy who owns it?
Nothing to do with tech diving.
Don't believe what you read on the Internet about Suuntos being conservative: this one supposedly runs the same model as Eon Steel, and that's not the same as what they whine about. It's a "tech" computer BTW, like Perdix.
I think it's a rebranded Oceanic VTX that got consistently bad reviews for its screen quality and battery life. If brand matching's the only reason, I'd stay away.
You can get a Suunto Zoop for £100. That will do Nitrox. You blow more than this in one days diving off a boat.
There are very few lockouts on a Suunto, unless you do something really stupid. Then it should lock you out. Yes the technical computers will let you break the rules, but the rules are there for a reason. The least funny message on the old VR3 was REVERT TO TABLE.
The issue that challenges me in the conversation is the adherence with staying within the NDL limit. NDL limits frighten me when people are so rigid. As I've said before, switch to Nitrox, that'll open the NDL window.
Granted most UK diving is two dives a day. (Most normal UK diving involves deco anyway - we can talk about that in a different thread).
But Red Sea trips are four dives (or more) a day. I've seen people on day five, having done every dive. Running the NDL to the edge, a 3 minute safety stop and out of the water. Excuse my French but sod that for a game of soldiers. I',m not doing that. I'm going to putting 10 minutes of more on the back end of every dive at between 6 and 3 meters. The truth is, on OC I'll be in deco coming off the bottom, then padding my last stop. Lets be honest, on a live aboard, you sleep, eat and dive. Its far safer being at 3m dozing doing extra deco (and cooler and more comfortable), then racing to be on the surface to go to sleep on the deck with sub clinical dci. I really don't fancy being hospitalised in Egypt. For that matter, being Hospitalised in the USA isn't going to do your wallet any good.
Its far safer to be conservative and do the extra deco in my mind.
Gareth
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