"old school" training?

[TMHeimer]

Well, as I said, I won't argue with any of that. Some very advanced and useful stuff you do. I assume Sports Leader somewhat equates to Divemaster? Honestly don't know. Of course a rescue from a net at night wouldn't be covered in the PADI DM course. 3 knots are covered in an AOW specialty dive and again in DM. I still practice them and may use one of them in about 2253..... Kidding aside, I have a great respect for what you guys do. I do admit I would never sign up for doing pool sessions twice weekly all the time. Then your ocean diving-- either super dedication or lots of free time on your hands (maybe both).
Of course I guess the small boat in ocean swells & other rescue practice takes place in the ocean.
Does sound a bit like being in the military (both my brothers were, one a retired US Navy Captain). I would have no interest in the boat barnacle scraping assignment. Sounds like Plebe punishment at Annapolis. I'd do it if I were paid...
Didn't mean to be so argumentative--just seemed you were doing a little "PADI bashing" as it is called. Yes, if you take PADI OW course and never review anything (with or without a buddy), never take more advanced courses, etc., this is not the smartest thing to do. I guess in this case the onus is on the individual to progress and dive regularly. Has worked fine for me for the type of diving I do. I have basic Wreck certification and did the basic penetration, but haven't done any of that. My diving is usually simple shore diving in Nova Scotia where I'll never run into a net. As well, I'm just not a group guy and when I do travel to dive I am a "single" diver. On a boat I get an "instabuddy" and depend on my rescue & DM training in case something goes sideways.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Didn't mean to be so argumentative--just seemed you were doing a little "PADI bashing" as it is called.

Not not PADI bashing.. PADI is about keeping the average recreational diver in very safe diving by not allowing DECO planned dives. Most PADI divers do not do a lot of diving per annum. So they are usually diving on vacation and usually with a dive center and with a guide. Sure there are people who dive with their friends without guides but even then a lot of them are only the odd weekend divers. I won my own business and usually get in around 10 plus weeks diving a year
So that equates to maybe 150 - 220 dives a year or more

BSAC Sports diving is a very different type of training and also as my instructors were also professional divers I do believe there was an added element they put into training that BSAC itself did not have. All in all I am grateful for that experience in the dive club. Yeah that rescue into a boat trained for in the pool at first then practiced in the ocean. Not easy to get right in a swell.

I was in Brunei in the 1980's so I worked Monday to Thursday and half day Friday at my. Others worked Monday to Thursday and Saturday and had Friday and Sunday off. 10 dives a week was being done.

So I could dive nights and Friday afternoon and weekends or fly to Kota Kinabalu for a few days. I did PADI to Rescue a few years ago the instructor told me it was a waste of money lol But I enjoyed redoing some PADI some courses again a few years ago. I dive a lot in the Philippines as it is very close flying time from Taiwan and also good diving in warm waters. Bali too and has some fast drift dives.

PADI I could say is this.... dive but don't do things that get you into a pickle.... if you avoid NDL then you avoid a lot things PADI divers are not trained for.

BSAC Sports diving was do all this Sports diving on planned DECO mutli stop diving but train for and know how to self rescue and get yourself out of a situation and be able to help others. 120 cubic foot Steel tanks or 15L with 230 bar sure gave you a lot of leeway on air....

I know basically dive with PADI centers and dive to PADI diving rules. So whoever my dive partners are they know that I will dive with a OW or whoever. I will do dives where the OW divers stay at less than the 18m depth for a dive. I'm fine with how PADI wants their divers to dive. I don't need to do planned deco dives or want to go to Tec40 Tec50 certs either.

I will probably do a non PADI Solo diving course not because I want to be a solo diver ( which in effect we really are ) but just to learn new things. All course offer different things so for the SOLO diving course I probably choose course where I learn a little more.

 

[TMHeimer]

Ok all is good. Not sure I would agree that most PADI divers don't do much per annum and usually are on vacation at a dive center with a guide. I know from reading on SB that many do. I certainly have no statistics on that.
Agree you avoid all sorts of possible problems if you remain withing NDL limits, unless you have the proper training. I haven't done that because the risks are still there as well as the cost...I also have absolutely no interest in tech. Being a shell collector, there just aren't that many species at 300' that aren't at 100'.
The most dives I've done in a year has been 80, averaging maybe 60. For what I do and where I live, any more than that would get pretty boring.

One last question-- Back to one I asked before-- Do you really do two pool sessions each week? How much time in the pool? At night after work? I honestly haven't heard of such dedication to date.

 

[Riles2226]

While there's plenty of mention of PADI and BASC here, the original impetus of the thread has been lost. This isn't about just these two agencies. This is about a difference in philosophy around diving, what it takes to begin diving, what it takes to continue diving, etc.

Some agencies (ie. PADI, SDI, SSI, etc.) have found/created ways to lower the bar and focus on providing opportunities to the entry-level consumer but all of them put constraints on the diver. Then they have formalized continuing education options that can help them build on their skillsets. This is ONE paradigm on diving, diving instruction and skill progression.

Some agencies (ie. GUE, BSAC, CMAS, etc.) have taken a different approach and hold a high bar from the get-go, load the beginning with a lot more skills and typically put out divers ready for a much higher-level of diving. This is another paradigm where, if you're going to do it, you're going to do it "right" and need to be trained at a high level.

From my perspective, both are legitimate approaches as long as people see them for what they are. If you have a PADI OW diver thinking they can come right out of a class and dive at the same level of a GUE student, they are wrong...but they also usually entered into their training for entirely different reasons. Similarly, I have seen SDI divers that have worked through their training that are comparably skilled as a BSAC diver.

The key, I believe, is that people know their limits, build up and have the right attitude. This is true regardless of whether you have 4 OW dives and a OW c-card with ink that is barely dry or you have thousands of dives and do complex hypoxic trimix dives. Either way, not knowing and respecting your limits will get you, and/or others around you, killed far faster than having a specific agency's name on your card will.

 

[Blackcrusader]

One last question-- Back to one I asked before-- Do you really do two pool sessions each week? How much time in the pool? At night after work? I honestly haven't heard of such dedication to date.

When people join an active club with members with a passion then club gatherings are normal. Also we were doing courses and as such we didn't want to do courses on the weekends we wanted to dive on the weekends. At night after work it was.

When I go diving I usually do 30 - 50 or more dives in a vacation and 3 - 4 dives a day.