OK to Bounce Dive to 220 Fsw as...

[Web Monkey]

Of course. What's new?

Don't have a heart attack, don't dive solo to get over diving anxiety, don't slip and drown in 6 feet of water.

Has anyone learned anything new today? Is anyone reading the above list and going Hum...I didn't know that...I won't do that again?

If something is dangerous, it's still dangerous, even if your instructor tells you "It's OK."

Even if the above is the only "take away point" anybody gets from this thread, it's still a worthwhile use of disk space and bandwidth.

Terry

 

[VooDooGasMan]

If you put Zoli 293 in the search of youtube, anyone in the world can see a guy take a single tank on his back, and sling tank, go to 293' and back. Why would you not think you can not do it. what divers, people read on this forum is not going to change what they see on video.

There are a wide variety of divers that will dive different ways every day, the diver usually uses the resources that is available to him, for the most part on his way of diving.

Yes diving is dangerous, that is part of the reason why we are divers, we have decided to outway the risk, by diving to our comfort level. Yet we all want to advance in our sport, its who we are.

The currents that I dive in, are just as dangerous as doing a bounce dive, so you can die pretty much on any dive any time. If you do not want to end up a dead diver, don't dive. There will always be risks, no matter what, you can only try to make it to the surface safely, If a problem arises. Only diving dives will make you a better diver.

Happy Diving

 

[gcbryan]

If something is dangerous, it's still dangerous, even if your instructor tells you "It's OK."

Even if the above is the only "take away point" anybody gets from this thread, it's still a worthwhile use of disk space and bandwidth.

Terry

Is it really? If I post every day to readers of Scubaboard that they should not hold their breath while diving for instance is that really a worthwhile use of disk space?

Why not just set up an auto repeating message that posts the above every Saturday at noon. If only one person decides to not hold their breath it will have been worth it.

 

[lamont]

A night dive in very cold water with current and poor visibilty may have a different outcome than a day dive in warm water with no current and good visibility.

Or all those conditions just breed complacency, and the narcosis at 200 feet incapacitates you anyway and you wind up just as dead...

The cold, dark, low viz conditions make this kind of diving riskier, but that doesn't mean that 200 foot bounce dives without those conditions is safe or sane...

 

[Web Monkey]

Is it really? If I post every day to readers of Scubaboard that they should not hold their breath while diving for instance is that really a worthwhile use of disk space?

Why not just set up an auto repeating message that posts the above every Saturday at noon. If only one person decides to not hold their breath it will have been worth it.

Divers don't generally learn that instructors contain about the same ratio of dumb-asses and wing-nuts as the rest of the population until it's too late.

I'm pretty sure Pete can handle the cost of making this tidbit available. And FWIW, SB has a number of "sticky" threads and posts for exactly this purpose, and they haven't broken the bank yet.

Terry

 

[ucfdiver]

Actually I'm not mistaken at all but thanks for your input. It's just that you misunderstood what is being said.

Must have. I thought I was reading about a group who were doing deep bounce dives as a substitute for male enhancement pills. The dives were clear examples of trust me dives done beyond their level of trianing, skill, and knowledge. Divers die all the time from this, the fact that you can (barely) make it on a single tank doesn't make it a recreational dive, it makes it lucky. But if there's a way to reasonably do a single tank dive below 150ft without a deco gas, I'll be the first to appologize for my misunderstanding.

 

[walke121]

Or all those conditions just breed complacency, and the narcosis at 200 feet incapacitates you anyway and you wind up just as dead...

The cold, dark, low viz conditions make this kind of diving riskier, but that doesn't mean that 200 foot bounce dives without those conditions is safe or sane...

I am in no means trying to start an argument but I know several people that dove 200+' on air in the 90's and are still here (they are all on trimix now). I'm not starting the deep air thread up again I'm just saying that is how it was done for a really long time and only a few people died and narcosis wasn't the cause in most of those deaths. I've been to 190' and narcosis is defiantly there but to say that narcosis at 200' incapacitates you and will kill you is just wrong. You are very correct saying that low vis, cold dives make those conditions much worse.

 

[BDSC]

Must have. I thought I was reading about a group who were doing deep bounce dives as a substitute for male enhancement pills.

So here is my original post:

"We did the Belize Blue Hole this past August and I went to about 144 ft to be able to swim through the stalactites. We had several new divers (10 to 20 dives) with us and some were a little nervous about the depths but all ended up doing the dive. Folks were given an option to hang out a lot higher if they wanted. No pressure at all to do the dive from anyone. The dive master lead the dive but was constantly looking and checking with the newer divers to make sure they were OK. I think the total dive ended up being maybe 20 minutes or so. After the dive all the new divers were glad they did it and said it helped them overcome some of their fears of diving to some deeper depths."

Not sure how you came to the conclusion from what I said above that doing the dive was somehow a "substitute for male enhancement pills." I clearly stated that no one was in any way pressured to do the dive. If folks didn't feel comfortable doing it, they didn't have to. So how was this some type of macho chest thumping event? You obviously read more into it than what's there.

The dives were clear examples of trust me dives done beyond their level of trianing, skill, and knowledge. Divers die all the time from this,.

Are divers really dying all the time from this? Like I said earlier, if this was really as dangerous and risky as many make it out to be, why aren't divers dying on a weekly basis in the Blue Hole in Belize? Why hasn't the dumb/blind luck ran out on a great deal more divers than it has? It was noted in another post that there are 6 known deaths in the Blue Hole in Belize. To me, that is 6 to many. But how many thousands upon thousands of dives have been done there since it was discovered. If diving to 130 - 140 ft. on a single aluminum 80 was life and death hanging by a thread, then hundreds of bodies would fill the bottom of the Blue Hole.

So just perhaps, and I know folks will jump all over this, doing that dive isn't dangerous at all. Is there some risk? Of course there is. Every time I get on a plane and fly to the Caribbean there is some risk involved. It is possible the plane could crash. But is getting on a plane considered by most logically thinking people risky or dangerous behavior, not hardly.

the fact that you can (barely) make it on a single tank doesn't make it a recreational dive, it makes it lucky.

You can easily do the dive on a single 80. It's done there every day. Luck has nothing to do with it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I've been to 190' and narcosis is defiantly there but to say that narcosis at 200' incapacitates you and will kill you is just wrong.

That very much depends on the person. I have been to 154 fsw on EAN25 (no helium) and I was so narced I had a lot of trouble thinking straight. I do believe that going to 190 on air would probably result in me doing something stupid that could be potentially fatal.

Others, I'm sure, have a higher tolerance for narcosis than I do.

The question is ... do you know what your tolerance is on any given day? And do you really want to risk that you'll be able to function at a high enough level to make good decisions? If so, have at it. Just don't expect someone else to take the same risks that you chose to.

Lots of people survive driving a car while drunk every day ... still doesn't make it a good argument for being an OK thing to do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Are divers really dying all the time from this? Like I said earlier, if this was really as dangerous and risky as many make it out to be, why aren't divers dying on a weekly basis in the Blue Hole in Belize? Why hasn't the dumb/blind luck ran out on a great deal more divers than it has? It was noted in another post that there are 6 known deaths in the Blue Hole in Belize. To me, that is 6 to many. But how many thousands upon thousands of dives have been done there since it was discovered. If diving to 130 - 140 ft. on a single aluminum 80 was life and death hanging by a thread, then hundreds of bodies would fill the bottom of the Blue Hole.

So just perhaps, and I know folks will jump all over this, doing that dive isn't dangerous at all. Is there some risk? Of course there is. Every time I get on a plane and fly to the Caribbean there is some risk involved. It is possible the plane could crash. But is getting on a plane considered by most logically thinking people risky or dangerous behavior, not hardly.

This is more a testament to the reliability of gear than the inherent safety of doing such a dive. It always boils down to how much risk one is willing to take. If you're willing to risk that everything will go right ... as it usually does ... then you will be fine. If you are someone who tries to plan for things going wrong then going to such a depth on such a small cylinder isn't a good idea ... because if something goes wrong you may be forced to (a) stay down longer than planner, or (b) share gas with a buddy, or (c) work harder than expected, which will increase your consumption rate.

Any of those things could cause you to run your tank empty before surfacing. Of course, you can always rely on a dive guide to bail you out ... but that's the definition of a "trust me" dive.

You can easily do the dive on a single 80. It's done there every day. Luck has nothing to do with it.

That only works if you assume that your gas is your gas, because you won't have any reserve to share with a buddy in an emergency.

I personally know someone who did that dive on her fifth dive after OW certification. She ran out of air on the way up. The DM put her on his octo and swam her up to the hang bar, where she breathed off of a hang tank for a few minutes before surfacing.

She survived ... in fact, she thought it was the coolest thing she'd ever done.

Do you think that's a good way to teach people how to dive? I don't.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)