OK to Bounce Dive to 220 Fsw as...

[peterbj7]

Here's the post that started the discussion. New divers.

OK, then I'm with you. The thread has broadened a bit, as they tend to do. As I've said somewhere else today, I'm opposed to new divers going down the BH. But I won't be able to stop it, but maybe I'll be able to help some of them do it a bit more safely.

 

[carrielsal]

OK, then I'm with you. The thread has broadened a bit, as they tend to do. As I've said somewhere else today, I'm opposed to new divers going down the BH. But I won't be able to stop it, but maybe I'll be able to help some of them do it a bit more safely.

This thread has brought up a good, healthy discussion. I would hope that this thread would help new divers understand why diving deeper depths on a single tank outside of their training is not a good idea. Just because a dive is led be a Dive Master does not mean it's safe. Just because "we do this dive here all the time" does not mean it's safe.

Carrie

 

[Web Monkey]

How many new divers would even know how to sling an AL80, much less deploy it. Or even know what it means to sling a bottle
New divers do not have the knowledge to even know what they don't know.

That was a minor hijack and not actually related to the original topic. I'm not suggesting lining up new divers and clipping off 80's, I was thinking more along the lines of someone on vacation who couldn't bring doubles but wants enough air to do the dive with a minimum "pucker factor".

Terry

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Are we talking about new divers? Clearly they shouldn't be expected to do things they've no experience or training in, and that includes diving beyond shallow depths.

I do feel quite strongly that air consumption considerations should be included in even basic scuba training. In fact, the beginner course should be longer and far more comprehensive. But wait a minute, that's what it used to be like.....

Some courses still are. I did the doff and don and gear exchange last night with my OW student. Next week is bailout and blacked out mask exercises. We did buddy breathing swims last week. First thing he did when we got to the deep end last night was basic skills- mask remove/replace, reg retrieval, weightbelt off and on, and bc off and on. All done horizontal in midwater. This time nothing touched the bottom when he put the bc back on. Last week a knee did.This was week 6 in the pool. Two more to go.

And to add to Carrie;s post regarding DM's and safety. I'd like to see no DM in the water on dives like this. Get rid of the false sense of security altogether. I'm beginning to think that having DM's on dives like this is actually the cause of some fatalities as opposed to preventing them. That more do not happen is plain dumb luck. And that has a tendency to run out.

 

[BDSC]

I do not dive deeper than 100' with an AL80 with a single valve. Not for any reason. If I felt the need to dive greater than 100' with a single tank, the smallest tank I would use would be a 95 with at least a 30 cuft pony. For me, this is non-negotiable.

Carrie

Thanks! I just like to get other peoples perspective about things.

 

[peterbj7]

Good for you, Jimlap (are you Jim?). That's how I'd prefer to teach, and how with IANTD and BSAC I did, but PADI won't wear it. And in a resort environment such as here it's difficult to go much beyond the minimum, on time grounds alone.

I hear what you say about false crutches, but I don't think I'd go quite as far as to send divers out unaccompanied. One reason why I like to go with other dive shops just as a passenger - the customers don't know who I am and ignore me but I can still look out for them in the event of a real problem. And without any staff in the water how do you know when a diver has lost buoyancy control and vanished downwards?

 

[The Chad]

So do you think it's possible for a diver (with all the "proper" training") to safely do a dive to a depth of 140 ft on a single Aluminum 80? Or is this just a lack of proper equipment? In other words, would a person need another air source to do this dive safely?

Any diver with proper training would also has the proper equipment and wouldnt consider the dive on a single 80

 

[brockbr]

Sadly, the realities of life in a warm-water resort environment mean that people HAVE to do such dives on single tanks. On a purely statistical basis I have to say that it is safe.

I dunno about that. Me, my wife and Docc went to Bonaire 2 weeks ago. We took our Nomads, cam bands, regs, mask and fins. We had to use yolk to din adapters, but we used the resort supplied AL80's and were sidemounting double 80's the entire week

Many people looked at us weird, but hey, we were doing 58 minutes of *bottom* time on the Hilma Hooker, meanwhile 3 full rotations of AL80-carrying groups came through

b.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Good for you, Jimlap (are you Jim?). That's how I'd prefer to teach, and how with IANTD and BSAC I did, but PADI won't wear it. And in a resort environment such as here it's difficult to go much beyond the minimum, on time grounds alone.

I hear what you say about false crutches, but I don't think I'd go quite as far as to send divers out unaccompanied. One reason why I like to go with other dive shops just as a passenger - the customers don't know who I am and ignore me but I can still look out for them in the event of a real problem. And without any staff in the water how do you know when a diver has lost buoyancy control and vanished downwards?

Simple, you don't take unqualified divers on dives with no hard bottom within their recommended depth limits. And the incident that inspired me to write my "Who is Responsible" essay had a DM on the dive. Taking newly certed OW divers on a planned 100ft wall dive with a hard bottom at a couple thousand feet. Luckily the deceased hit a ledge of some kind at 342, bounced, and came up. And if they have proper buddies and buddy training their buddy will be able to assist them. A few things PADI does not address or "wear".

And yeah it's Jim. I think I'm gonna get a mod to put a space in there or just use my full name. There's a link to it in every one of my posts anyway, So why not!

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I was sitting at a table of beginner and newly acquired advanced level divers (they were rewarded their advanced cards at dinner) the instructor told one of the divers it would be fine to drop down to 220 and come right back up…

What are the issues here especially if the diver is pretty overweight and out of shape…

To me, it sounds like this might be taken out of context or it was only part of a conversation the OP heard. I doubt any instructor would advocate such a practice. Instructors often will provide examples of unsafe diving practices in order to create a better understanding of diving, physics, physiology or even safe and unsafe diving practices themselves. I often present students with extremes to foster a better understanding of the topic that I'm trying to convey. As an example, I was trying to sucker two Triox students this past weekend into making a stage drop in a poor location to see if their smarts would override my "suggestion" once underwater. Anyone listening to me at the time would think that I advocated dropping stage bottles on the deck of a wreck rather than teaching to always carry them or to only drop stage/deco bottles in a secure location on the exit if absolutely necessary. A diver listening to me obviously did not approve. I felt compelled to explain the situation to that diver out of earshot of my students. Despite the OP's presence, I am sure the bounce dive wasn't advocated nor suggested and was part of a larger discussion.