Off-topic Discussion moved from Diver Missing in the Bahamas thread

[Johnoly]

.... I will give them $1,000 if they can get a shark to come close enough to me for a great pic without a dead or wounded fish (excluding nurse sharks, barracudas, and sand tigers in North Carolina).....

Might want to disallow that crushing plastic water bottle trick we use too. But like you said, they'll come in once for it and then bored and leave right away. P.S. Viz was dark yesterday, heavy sun blocking snot layer.

 

[Doug Kahle]

Might want to disallow that crushing plastic water bottle trick we use too. But like you said, they'll come in once for it and then bored and leave right away. P.S. Viz was dark yesterday, heavy sun blocking snot layer.

John, you know the plastic bottle doesn't get it done; it may get them looking at you from a distance, but they won't come in; we've played that game. Also, we've shot spear guns in the sand; it gets the sharks circling, but only for a few seconds and they won't come close enough. They quickly realize that there is no dead fish and that they have been tricked; so, they leave as quickly as they appeared. Thankfully, they don't hold grudges and are not pissed-off for being tricked.

 

[The Chairman]

Doug, with all respect, simply lose the bubbles. Fish don't act like fish when I'm on a rebreather and I'd bet that sharks wouldn't either. Bubbles are our best shark deterrent. Damn them!

 

[Doug Kahle]

Doug, with all respect, simply lose the bubbles. Fish don't act like fish when I'm on a rebreather and I'd bet that sharks wouldn't either. Bubbles are our best shark deterrent. Damn them!

How many experienced divers have died on a rebreather? I'm not sure, but a lot more than have died feeding sharks. Those things scare me.

Also, snorkeling with certain sharks is better; but, not much better. With snorkeling, there are no bubbles to worry about; but, I don't think sharks like things diving down and/or looking at them from above; so, not sure we've solved any problem by snorkeling with them, we've just realized that they fear something else that we do.

 

[reefman]

Florida is the only state with an anti-feeding law and currently it surpasses the WORLD in numbers of shark attacks: 24 last year. Over half of these attacks happen to surfers and none, zero and nada happened to any scuba diver. In fact, it would appear that there are many, many close calls happening to spearos... https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sharks+spearfishing It's my opinion that most who oppose shark feedings do so out of simple hysteria, pettiness or professional jealousy. Those are the things you simply don't want to base public policy or science on.

Pete, you left out HAWAII,,,,,,,



Haw. Rev. Stat. § 188-40.6 : Hawaii Statutes - Section 188-40.6: Shark feeding; prohibitions; exceptions; penalties.



reefman
key largo

 

[drbill]

Doug, with all respect, simply lose the bubbles. Bubbles are our best shark deterrent.

Hmmm... Pete, I've never dived with a buddy named Bubbles. Maybe I'll have to try that. Tee hee!

 

[packrat12]

When I encounter these people who claim that sharks are approaching divers, the discussion ends pretty quickly. First, I tell them that I will give them $1,000 if they can get a shark to come close enough to me for a great pic without a dead or wounded fish (excluding nurse sharks, barracudas, and sand tigers in North Carolina). Second, I ask them to identify the dive site because I want to dive there to see if for myself.
....
In conclusion, you expect me to believe that these very same sharks that I cannot get close to with a crate of bloody dead fish are approaching divers who have no dead fish? Bull****! Bull****! Bull****! Again, I got a $1,000 for you if you can get one close to me without a dead fish or wounded fish.

Doug,

I am neutral on shark feeding as done by Randy J. I prefer the Tiger Beach way as I do not like the idea of spearing fish for my fun (a little odd considering the chumsicle fish are in the same boat so to speak). Anyway, about 22 years ago, I took my wife on a shark dive at Walker Cay for our honeymoon (* Most said I tried to off her then but that's another story). It was a relatively new shark dive as that was around when they were starting to get serious. We were the end of the season so we were the only 2 divers + the dive master in the water.

Even before we had anchored, black tip reef sharks were bumping the boat and cutting the water. In the water, we had sharks of all types, over 100 or so, from Nurse, Lemon, Black Tip and Bull. Often the black tip cut between us and us and the dive master. Had no problem approaching any of them within probably 5 feet, except the bulls which stayed in the distance. We free swam for about 40 minutes in this and yes I have the video of it.

Now for the rest of it, because we were the only 2 diving, we did not bait nor feed them in any way. The sharks were fully aware that this was a common feeding area and when the boat showed up, they came looking for food. We even laughed about it before we got in the water that the sharks were going to be pissed that they were not going to be fed.

When my wife lived in the FL Keys, her stepfather would bring the by catch tropical fish into the canal. They would feed them dog food. Every morning, the fish would follow them looking for the food. The fish even could recognize which person was the one going to feed them, they got to know my wife. On beach dive that we did years ago off Commercial, we were followed by a trigger fish, not native to FL, the entire dive. If we went too far away, it would find us and rush over. Again, this fish knew we were people and people had fed it when it was in an aquarium. We played with it the entire dive. Fish/sharks can indeed learn to associate food with people.

Overall, I like the idea of being able to dive with the sharks in shark dives and do not want it banned. But I find it irresponsible when I hear people, including dive masters, say things including "we do not alter their behavior", "I can read a shark and know what it is going to do"... etc. Many of these have been said on this board. What I prefer is an awareness that yes, the bait is attracting the sharks and they, like any other animal, are aware that we are doing this commonly at this location and can learn to associate it with us. Also that as any other animal, we cannot predict what they will do. Shark diving 100% safe, no. Shark diving risk acceptable... depends on who the diver is, although they should fully under stand the risk. I have thought about taking my daughter, but due to her size, she would be shark bait.

Lastly, I believe the shark dive on Walker's Cay was being operated by the Watson family at the time....

 

[wspalding]

When I encounter these people who claim that sharks are approaching divers, the discussion ends pretty quickly. First, I tell them that I will give them $1,000 if they can get a shark to come close enough to me for a great pic without a dead or wounded fish (excluding nurse sharks, barracudas, and sand tigers in North Carolina). Second, I ask them to identify the dive site because I want to dive there to see if for myself.

They quickly stfu.

People don't understand that it is not easy getting a shark to come close even with a crate of dead, bloody fish. To this day, I have only one "acceptable" pic of a Bull Shark because I can't get them close enough to me. Great Hammers and Sandbar Sharks are very difficult to get close to; and, if one does decide to come close, it usually does one or two passes then moves on. We are having better luck feeding them while snorkeling with them; apparently, because they don't like the bubbles; but, still not easy and most are still not coming in close enough.

Most Tigers we encounter are too shy to come close enough. We see them on the perimeter, or, they give us one quick fly-by and we never see them again.

Also, the study by Neil Hammerschlag and the U of Miami demonstrated that feeding Tigers had no impact on their migration. Thus, why did the Tigers not stay at Tiger Beach where they can obtain easy food? Why are they not staying in the area with the divers that are feeding them?

Also, this past Lemon Shark migration in Palm Beach County demonstrated that we had 20 to 30 Lemon Sharks for a couple months. Then, suddenly, they all disappeared. They left us and continued on their migration. Again, why did they not stay with the divers who were feeding them?

In conclusion, you expect me to believe that these very same sharks that I cannot get close to with a crate of bloody dead fish are approaching divers who have no dead fish? Bull****! Bull****! Bull****! Again, I got a $1,000 for you if you can get one close to me without a dead fish or wounded fish.

Is that $1000 offer good to anyone? I'd like in on that given we have video of a reef shark approaching within 5 ft last week in Jupiter. I will say it was not a threatening approach, just a curious shark.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Capt Scotty]

We are two for two here in Key Largo. In the past two days two people have died on a scuba or snorkeling trip. Neither one even made the local TV news much less nationally. I bet it would have if someone had said that sharks where in the water when it happened.

 

[Scott from LongIsland]

Doug,

I am neutral on shark feeding as done by Randy J. I prefer the Tiger Beach way as I do not like the idea of spearing fish for my fun (a little odd considering the chumsicle fish are in the same boat so to speak). Anyway, about 22 years ago, I took my wife on a shark dive at Walker Cay for our honeymoon (* Most said I tried to off her then but that's another story). It was a relatively new shark dive as that was around when they were starting to get serious. We were the end of the season so we were the only 2 divers + the dive master in the water.

Even before we had anchored, black tip reef sharks were bumping the boat and cutting the water. In the water, we had sharks of all types, over 100 or so, from Nurse, Lemon, Black Tip and Bull. Often the black tip cut between us and us and the dive master. Had no problem approaching any of them within probably 5 feet, except the bulls which stayed in the distance. We free swam for about 40 minutes in this and yes I have the video of it.

Now for the rest of it, because we were the only 2 diving, we did not bait nor feed them in any way. The sharks were fully aware that this was a common feeding area and when the boat showed up, they came looking for food. We even laughed about it before we got in the water that the sharks were going to be pissed that they were not going to be fed.

When my wife lived in the FL Keys, her stepfather would bring the by catch tropical fish into the canal. They would feed them dog food. Every morning, the fish would follow them looking for the food. The fish even could recognize which person was the one going to feed them, they got to know my wife. On beach dive that we did years ago off Commercial, we were followed by a trigger fish, not native to FL, the entire dive. If we went too far away, it would find us and rush over. Again, this fish knew we were people and people had fed it when it was in an aquarium. We played with it the entire dive. Fish/sharks can indeed learn to associate food with people.

Overall, I like the idea of being able to dive with the sharks in shark dives and do not want it banned. But I find it irresponsible when I hear people, including dive masters, say things including "we do not alter their behavior", "I can read a shark and know what it is going to do"... etc. Many of these have been said on this board. What I prefer is an awareness that yes, the bait is attracting the sharks and they, like any other animal, are aware that we are doing this commonly at this location and can learn to associate it with us. Also that as any other animal, we cannot predict what they will do. Shark diving 100% safe, no. Shark diving risk acceptable... depends on who the diver is, although they should fully under stand the risk. I have thought about taking my daughter, but due to her size, she would be shark bait.

Lastly, I believe the shark dive on Walker's Cay was being operated by the Watson family at the time....

Well, as noted above...you need dead or wounded fish to attract them...they will not approach without that (please disregard what you witnessed on your trip, that doesn't count). but their behavior is not altered by doing this...huh? pretzel logic there...